Ensign And Elizabethan

Post by **Garry Russell** » 31 Oct 2006, 20:04

This is the only one Dave

And it was due to Dan Air's wish to save one of each type that it exists.

The type finished at a time when preservation of airliners was not yet done as such.

The first being G-ALWF at Liverpool and that nearly fell apart before being rescued by Duxford.

So she is unique

Garry

Chris Trott · Post by **Chris Trott** » 31 Oct 2006, 20:08

I really wish that you guys could have an organization like the Commemorative Air Force over there. The idea is great - preserve 1 of every military aircraft (including helicopters and gliders) ever flown by the parties involved in World War II, Korea, and Vietnam in flying condition. In the UK, the idea could be broadened - One of every British aircraft built from 1900 thru 1970 be preserved. I understand that asking for every one to be flyable is asking a bit much, but still, there should be a push by those who really care about aviation in the UK who push for something like this as a national issue. CAF's managed to get a lot of the US involved in such preservation and with their new marketing push will get even more. The thing with the CAF is that nearly every civil aircraft ever built within the US has served the military at one time or another, so we get the side effect of possibly preserving an example of every major aircraft ever built in the US. We now have assistance from those in France, Switzerland, New Zealand, and Australia (the CAF has wings there now) so the idea is spreading and I only hope that it can spread into the UK sooner rather than later.

Post by **DaveB** » 31 Oct 2006, 20:48

Fine words Chris and ones I agree with wholeheartedly. I think a lot of what you see over in the U.S. can be attributed to it's very short history (in real terms) coupled with a feeling of 'worth' and a desire to grasp and keep what little history there is. Over here, there is an overwhelming complacency caused by the exact opposite.. sad but true. Very few care about such things. While the law will say a buildings facade is grade2 listed so cannot be altered (or lost), the same does not apply when the last of a type of aircraft.. be it in the country or the world, 'get's in the way' :sad: Save a tree or a woodland, fine. Folk will live in the trees and chain themselves to earthmovers but no one cares (or very few) about the loss of, for example, the Cosford Trident.

We are in many ways our own worst enemy :roll:

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Chris Trott · Post by **Chris Trott** » 31 Oct 2006, 23:26

Dave, I think a lot of it also has to do with general attitude. In the UK, sadly, a lot of the population has become "what can the country do for me?" instead of "what can I do for my country?" (to nick the famous words of John F. Kennedy as it fits well here). In the US, there are still plenty of individuals who see a need for something to be done and then get it done and don't wait for the government to do it for them. The best evidence of this happened just 3 weeks ago at the CAF's annual AirSho in Midland, TX. The B-29, 'Fifi', the only one currently flying needs $3 million to get new engines and several other major repairs made. At AirSho, a private individual stepped forward and gave $2 million of his own money (he's an industrialist/inventor) to the project. These are the kinds of things that need to happen more often in the UK or else the last flying British Classics will all be in the US, Canada, and Down Under in Australia & New Zealand.

Post by **DaveB** » 01 Nov 2006, 01:34

Hi Chris,

Yes.. I very much agree with that too. The political climate here is such that it's no longer 'acceptable' to even declare yourself as being ENGLISH.. you're either 'British' or 'European'.. something you guy's over there don't have to tolerate. 'What I can do for my country' doesn't exist outside the military.. a sweeping statement but nonetheless, an accurate one I'm afraid.
Concorde managed to 'bond' the population to a degree not expected (and only on it's retirement) but this was the exception to the rule and not the rule.

I'd not want to live anywhere else but this doesn't mean to say that everything here is a garden of roses

ATB

DaveB :tab:

DispatchDragon · Post by **DispatchDragon** » 01 Nov 2006, 03:43

Having read the total garbage above - Firstly - seems to me a British
entrepeneur just coughed up enough reddies to get the last Vulcan
back in the air - secondly the piece of tripe quoted by Mr Trott attributed
to JFK - well lets see that applies here in the US as well - everyone wants
something for nothing - and if they cant get it - then they'll sue. I have
an extremly good insight as to what is going on in my home country however
I will be English till the day I die - I live in the US for nothing more than convience and money - and having watched the total dreck thats going on in
the upcoming elections Im glad I cant vote. I think many Americans are
good and true people - however I dont need to become one of them

Leif

airboatr · Post by **airboatr** » 01 Nov 2006, 05:18

DispatchDragon wrote:Havin..............
I will be English till the day I die - I live in the US for nothing more than convience and money - and having watched the total dreck thats going on in
the upcoming elections Im glad I cant vote. I think many Americans are
good and true people - however I dont need to become one of them
Leif

This offends me in so many ways that I won't even begin to
list them.
So youâ€™re here in the US for your own good and you donâ€™t
think you have some responsibility To her??

What about your son ?? Heâ€™s an Americanâ€¦â€¦

Damn I canâ€™t fricken believe you posted that >
You better get your head and your ass wired together
Damn quick.
Lump it or Leave it Lief

Post by **DaveB** » 01 Nov 2006, 10:19

Oh Dear...

My apologies to Cathy for being party to this thread going off track. Hopefully, you got the info you requested if not the info you wanted

ATB

DaveB :tab:

DanKH · Post by **DanKH** » 01 Nov 2006, 11:08

yeehaa...here we go again ;-)

Started off with a simple, innocent but relevant request, and turned into mud....

Funny thing is, you NEVER know when it's going to happen!....

AndyG · Post by **AndyG** » 01 Nov 2006, 11:09

DaveB wrote:Hi Chris,

Yes.. I very much agree with that too. The political climate here is such that it's no longer 'acceptable' to even declare yourself as being ENGLISH.. you're either 'British' or 'European'.. something you guy's over there don't have to tolerate. 'What I can do for my country' doesn't exist outside the military.. a sweeping statement but nonetheless, an accurate one I'm afraid.
Concorde managed to 'bond' the population to a degree not expected (and only on it's retirement) but this was the exception to the rule and not the rule.

I'd not want to live anywhere else but this doesn't mean to say that everything here is a garden of roses

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Sorry Dave, I know I'm taking it back OT a little, but I needed to make a brief response to some of your comments. :think:

In two weeks time the BBC will be holding their "Children in Need" night. This will be the culmination of a lot of hard work for thousands of volunteers and fundraisers nationwide, and will be watched by millions of people throughout the UK (and, indeed, throughout the world) who will once again put their hands in their pockets and donate an awesomely large amount of money for the charity.

In previous years I have been one of the volunteers manning the phone lines, and I never ceased to be humbled by the generosity of people. Especially interesting would be the calls from overseas viewers (the Dutch, for example, are a very generous group of people) who always made a comment to the effect of how typically English/British this was, and why could other nationalities not follow our example.

So, yes all in the garden may not be rosy, but on balance it ain't all that bad either!

AndyG