Mystery Vessel

The Crewroom for non-FS related stuff, fun and general chat.

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DaveB
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Post by DaveB »

Hello matey..

Garry asked if there was 'much' of the Falklands fleet in existance.. not if there was any of if in existance, hence my reply no. :wink: Invincible is 'still around' as you put it but sitting in 3 Basin having bits pulled off her to keep the other two going while awaiting her fate is just about as close as it gets to not being there :sad:
A handful of the batch1 42's are still in commission but are due to go soon.

Difficult to say why the US seem to hang on to some of their ships for longer than we do though this doesn't apply to all types. An example given elsewhere in the thread refered to one of their carriers and it has to be remembered that the US still operate fixed wing aircraft.. something we do not.. not in the traditional sense anyway so there's less need for us to hang onto the 'big'.. old carriers. Don't forget that the RN ordered nice big carriers to replace Ark, Eagle, Victorious e t c but the government of the day put an end to that little exercise :roll: Originally, the Invincible Class were called 'Through Deck Cruisers'.. this because those holding the purse strings wouldn't 'stretch' to a full-blown aircraft carrier.. a cruiser sounded smaller and cheaper and thus more acceptable :huf: Even further back.. the Counties.. Devonshire, Hampshire e t c. These were light cruisers but again.. no one would sanction us spending money on cruisers so they were reclassified Destroyers. Just compare the size of a County Class DLG to all previous Destroyers!!!!!

Whichever way you look at it.. this country is more likely to scrap a ship because the cost of an extensive refit is deemed too expensive rather than hang onto it.. regardless of the shortfall in operational requirement :roll: Woe, woe and thrice woe :poke:

ATB

DaveB :tab:
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chockhead819
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Post by chockhead819 »

The RN lost the big carriers because the RAF lost the nuclear detterent. The RAF said we can cover the fleet anywhere in the world which was accepted, they probably could during the 60s with the bases available.
The RAF didn't want RN to have the SHAR!!! good job they weren't listened to or the Falklands would still be in Argentine hands.

There is a book about Lord Trenchard & how he wanted the Fleet Air Arm disbanded, Its written by an ex Wing Cmdr who forsaw events & what would happen if we scrapped the carriers a la Billy Mitchell.

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Michael davies
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Post by Michael davies »

Could a mod move this to E&S ?, the original post served its purpose and l've no objections, then we can debate this properly :tab:

Best regards

Michael

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Garry Russell
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Post by Garry Russell »

OK Michael.........fair comment and done! :smile:

ATB

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Chris Trott
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Post by Chris Trott »

The reason the US hangs on to ships longer is the same reason we hang onto our aircraft longer than most. We invest the money up front to ensure that we have the "latest and greatest" and that means that our equipment remained up-to-date longer. We also learned our lesson from World War II where refitting ships with new equipment as new weapons and systems were created became the norm instead of the exception, so all new ships are built to be able to be relatively easily modified and updated throughout their lifetimes (which are nominally 40 years now). The airplanes are the same, we've had the F-16 and the F-15 around for years, but we're on the 30th or so iteration of the F-16 (F-16C Block 42 is the newest in US service) and the 5th iteration of the F-15. Our transports are even more heavily modified through the years with the KC-135R being practically a new airplane even though the basic structure was assembled in the 1960s.

I think the other thing with the US is that we never stopped believing in our place as a major strategic deterrent. In the UK, that wasn't the case. The government saw itself as a theater deterrent (i.e. protecting themselves and Europe) and not as much of a worldwide strategic deterrent as the US did since the US is so far geograhically removed from the enemy faced at the time. As such, what need did a theater deterrent have for a carrier that carried big airplanes around the world when the concern was an enemy less than 5000 miles away?

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thehappyotter
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Post by thehappyotter »

Garry,

It depends if by "in existance" you mean actually still being a whole or still in service...

I've done a quick and very rough list below:

HMS Hermes - In service with India as INS Viratt
HMS Invincible - Mothballed
HMS Fearless - Awaiting scrapping but still in existance (I think)
HMS Intrepid - Awaiting scrapping but still in existance(I think)
HMS Bristol - Training ship
HMS Sheffield - Sunk
HMS Glasgow - Decommissoned (I was in the Glasgow Mess when at HMS Raleigh so this ship is special to me)
HMS Coventry - Sunk
HMS Exeter - Active
HMS Cardiff - Decommissoned
HMS Glamorgan - Sold to Chile then sunk whilst under tow to be scrapped
HMS Antrim - Sold to Chile but now decommisioned
HMS Brilliant - Sold to Brazil
HMS Broadsword Sold to Brazil
HMS Active - Living up to her name and active with Pakistan
HMS Alacrity - Sold to Pakistan, in service
HMS Antelope - Sunk
HMS Ardent - Sunk
HMS Ambuscade - Sold to Pakistan, in service
HMS Avenger - Sold to Pakistan, in service
HMS Arrow - Sold to Pakistan, in service
HMS Andromeda - Sold to India, now a training ship
HMS Minerva - Scrapped
HMS Penelope - Sold to Ecuador
HMS Yarmouth - Sunk as target
HMS Plymouth - Preserved (just)
HMS Endurance - Decommisioned, presumed scrapped.
HMS Leeds Castle - In service
HMS Dumbarton Castle - In service
HMS Conqueror - Scrapped
HMS Courageous - Museum boat
HMS Onyx - Privately owned
HMS Valiant - Awaiting disposal at Devenport

That doesn't include the survey vessels or mine sweepers, nor the RFA who obviously suffered some losses. It doesn't include requisitioned ships either.

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DaveB
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Post by DaveB »

One of that list.. Exeter, is in Pompey at the moment and although 'active' is near the end of her 'RN' service life.

Fearless and Intrepid are as I posted in 'If you don't like ships.. don't look' here in E&S. They're both down the trot awaiting disposal. Both ships have a heavy asbestos content so the majority of the world (3rd world included) don't want them.

Bristol is a Sea Scout base and although afloat, is not commissioned and has no weapons systems onboard or radar/radio equipment. She's tied alongside at Whale Island (see above post).

There are 3 Type 42's down the trot and I'm pretty sure Glasgow is one. Ships that go down there don't usually re-appear in active service anywhere.

That's a nice list Otter and brings back a lot of fond and not so fond memories. Perhaps I misunderstood Garry's original question but when something goes out of service or is sold.. I don't consider it 'in existance', probably not to the same degree he does with aircraft hulks. When they leave the RN.. they're gone as far as I'm concerned :smile: So.. cutting the crap.. there is one ship still on active service but only just. I still think this qualifies a reasonable answer of NO to is there much of the Falklands Fleet still in existance :wink:

chockhead.. don't agree fully with your explanation of why we lost the big carriers although it was another aspect of the overall view/thinking of the day. As I said, the cut-back in ships wasn't only restricted to the carriers. Whatever.. you're entitled to your opinion and to view it :wink:

ATB

DaveB :tab:
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