VC10 using BackCourse approach?

DanKH · Post by **DanKH** » 01 Feb 2007, 00:01

Hi

How do you fly BackCourse with the VC10.

Can it be done with and without the AP?

And how then?

I've noticed the small "BackBeam" there, but does it work, and how do I activate it if it does....

DanKH · Post by **DanKH** » 01 Feb 2007, 01:34

Thanks Tonks, very informal...

That's for a manual flight...

What about using the AP, or is that not possible?

Post by **MALTBY D** » 01 Feb 2007, 10:15

Sorry Dan, the model doesn't have a working backcourse selection.
It's an option I've always been a bit lazy on. Only the latest 1-11 has it I think.

From what I know, you can't do a proper auto ILS on backcourse because you don't get a GS signal. (or even if you do, it won't be in the right place)
In FS I think you can do what Tonks does though. Dial in the opposite runway heading & the localizer then displays the right way round.

That does confuse me a bit, because the 1-11 model's backcourse switch reverses the signal & so you'd dial in the runway you are landing on.
It's not something I have a full grasp of. :think:

DM

DanKH · Post by **DanKH** » 01 Feb 2007, 10:29

Thanks David

Oh how I'm looking forward to any updates on the VC10 ...

Nothing on the visual which is superb, but on the functionality there could be a couple of things to either improve or introduce ...

DanKH · Post by **DanKH** » 01 Feb 2007, 10:43

Thanks again Tonks, looking forward to that.

I'm now virtually in the Caribbean/Panama area, and most of the airports there only have one ILS (at least in the sim), so there's a lot of possibilities to practice the backcourse landings here...

As I understand it, establishing an ILS isn't cheap, so some airports uses the "double effect" ...

By the way, for anyone who wants to "get a grasp" of "backcoursing"

take a look at this:

http://stoenworks.com/Tutorials/ILS%20B ... aches.html

Other tutorials available from here:
http://stoenworks.com/Tutorials/

kit · Post by **kit** » 01 Feb 2007, 22:56

Dan,

If you're an FSNav user there is a boiler-plate method of doing a backcourse ILS under AP.

Plot the flightplan into where the ILS funnel would be if it was a normal one and let FSNav compute the descent to the threshold. Then when you arrive at that point, and the aircraft is lined up on the approach, disengage FSNav (Shift-F9) and ensure the altitude and heading numbers remain the same in the AP windows. That keeps you on the correct heading and the theoretical glide slope. Then watch the 'End of decent' arrowhead like a hawk and adjust your speed to make sure the EOD stays on the theshold.

It works but it's not all that realistic I'm afraid.

Doing it in low vis. is an ego booster though

When you come out the bottom of the cloud at 1000ft and there's the runway just as you'd expect on a visual approach it's a result!

DanKH · Post by **DanKH** » 02 Feb 2007, 00:22

Nahh Kit, although it seems like it can be done by "cheating" that is not really for me :tuttut:

I'm going to to some training flights here and there, and then do it "the proper way"

Although it is not real, I'm afraid it actually is "As Real As It Gets" for me.... :sad:

Thanks for the explanation though, some might find it useful.

johnhinson · Post by **johnhinson** » 02 Feb 2007, 19:48

MALTBY D wrote: From what I know, you can't do a proper auto ILS on backcourse because you don't get a GS signal. (or even if you do, it won't be in the right place)
In FS I think you can do what Tonks does though. Dial in the opposite runway heading & the localizer then displays the right way round.

DM

If you had a glideslope to use on a backcourse approach, it would be
a conventional ILS approach, wouldn't it? I haven't flown your
VC10 (sorry - I'm a propellerhead) but I would guess it behaves like
most other FS aircraft in that you can select the B/C on the AP (or
press Ctrl-B in its absence) and it should lock you on the localiser so
all you have to concentrate on is altitude during your approach. As
has been said, though, you do need to be aware that the VOR
indicator reads backwards.

There are zillions of places in FS where a runway only has an ILS one
way and FS gives you a visual approach for the other direction where
you can apply this. Using this feature is something that a zig-zag
concrete thumper like me benefits from considerably.

The other thing I have read that a B/C can be used for (although
I've never found the need) is to maintain runway course on
departure from an airfield.

John

DanKH · Post by **DanKH** » 02 Feb 2007, 20:52

No John, the (current) panel don't have a B/C button

(and using CTRL-B is cheating in my book

)

I try to only use the things available in the panel from the developers side...

So I'm kind of restricted here, David.....

Post by **MALTBY D** » 02 Feb 2007, 21:40

Dan, there is no need for any work on the VC10, it can already do backcourse just like Tonks does it. I've just done one.
No GS available, but you get the localizer.
You tune to the ILS beam as normal, but set the course as if you were landing on the runway with the beam.
That way, when you arrive from behind, it will display left and right correct for your position.

That is what confused me about the Backcourse selection in the real VC10.
Tonks says he still manually reverses the instument by setting the course to the opposite runway.
So what is the backcourse switch actually doing on the real aircraft, if it doesn't reverse the signal?
Reversing the localizer signal is all that a BC switch does in FS.

On the 1-11 model (BC fitted), you'd tune to the ILS, set the course to the runway you are landing on & select 'BC' to reverse the signal.

DM