FS Crew Workload

ChrisHunt · Post by **ChrisHunt** » 14 May 2006, 18:38

This particular topic results from a discussion of the Mars over on the Payware forum. For those that don't visit, or have not seen it, there was (is) some discussion over real world panel configurations (50's era that is) and the workload of the crew, viz pilots, f/e's etc.

The discussion (crew workload, panel configuration etc) raises an interesting point in that I believe that the workload in FS, despite significant simplifications in some areas, is probably higher than than in the real-world, particularly where a/c have systems modelled closely on the real thing.

The reason I put this point of view forward is that the input controls we use (keyboard, joystick etc) are not meant to provide an appropriately ergonomic interface (despite programmable joysticks) with an aircrafts systems and the outside world. This coupled with how we see the outside of the aircraft (TrackIR may help considerably here) means that we probably have to think more about what we are about to do and how we do it and also work harder at viewing what we need to see for the right outcome.

I could, of course, be talking complete bo**ocks; I would be interested to here from real-world pilots whether or not it is necessary to work harder in FS than it is in real life (this assumes that the virtual pilot wishes the same outcomes as they would in the real world, e.g. not become a lawn dart).

Any thoughts?

Regards,
Chris

Chris Trott · Post by **Chris Trott** » 14 May 2006, 22:03

I think that's true to some excent, but most of the source of workload during flights id faily well distributed.

For example, the startup procedure may take 3 minutes versus 1 in real life, but once you're setup, your workload comes down quite quickly.

The other thing that I look at is programs like FSNet (http://www.gates.to) that allow one to share their cockpit with a second person. If you don't have enough work for them to do, it gets boring pretty quick.

migman29 · Post by **migman29** » 15 May 2006, 20:05

Sounds like you need Mr Mclelland,Venom and Hunter driver in the RAF
and Gripper driver for BEA and British Airways.

His favorite Fs mounts are one of DaveG's Hunter single seaters and
DM's Tridents.
He did most of the flight developement work on the Tridents,particularly the "3",for DM with the result that it is probably as close as you could get it in the Fs world.

Also get hold of Tonks,he drives VC10's for the RAF.

Mark :-({|=

DispatchDragon · Post by **DispatchDragon** » 15 May 2006, 20:42

For what its worth

Having ridden on jumpseats a couple of times

The workload is on FS is totally out of skew with real life -

On two man crews the workload is divided equally between the PF/PNF

so you aree to all intents and purposes perfom the workload of BOTH

in the sim

For instance - the PF (at least in my meager experience) never touches the
gear handle or the flaps - he calls for them - radio work is done by the
PNF - and to be perfectly frank after 10000 feet and for the majority
of cruise neither do anything - (very much like Flight sim) except monitor

In 3 man crews - The engineer (on jet aircraft) would have been responisble for power settings , fuel control and pressurization/cabin comfort - but again the work load would be 1/3 as much as in any
FS -- On older piston engined aircraft I have had the pleasure to jumpseat on Ummm DC4/6 Connie the engineers workload is a little heavier but the
1/3 regime is about the same

So If you wanted to get three people and fly Jens DC4 you would be
on the right elvel for work load - Hence the old saw of the Flight Simmer
comming and saving the day in a real aircraft is just that- an old saw
you would be totally overwhelmed by the work load

Of course I could be wrong

Leif

Post by **DaveB** » 15 May 2006, 21:13

Mark..

Tonks has plenty of experience with the real VC10 but none in flightsim as he doesn't have flightsim :shock:

Brian Withers is a good man to comment as he's used to 4-engined jets/props with a flightdeck crew to match and is an active simmer

Likewise, as has already been mentioned, Peter McLeland

ATB

DaveB :tab:

britishtourer · Post by **britishtourer** » 16 May 2006, 10:45

Concorde Professional comes with a virtual flight engineer to take cake of the flight engineers job so you can fly the plane.

briwith · Post by **briwith** » 16 May 2006, 11:29

Having quite a few thousand hours on multi-engined aircraft, I am sometimes surprised by the workload in FS. Mind you, most of it is self imposed

I tend to fly IFR with real weather and a fair amount of traffic and departures and arrivals can get quite busy because their is no co-pilot to share the tasks. Consequently, I find that I have to rely much more on the autopilot than I would in the real world while finding approach plates, answering the RT, and monitoring the weather radar and other traffic.

I use the old propliners and the Shack quite a bit and I think they are probably the most demanding because you have to be flight engineer and navigator as well. With the modern jets, I find things tend to go a bit quiet in the cruise whereas monitoring fuel and mixture and following VOR radials from a paper map is enough to keep me interested most of the time.

Having said all that, I think the degree of realism that can be achieved in FS9 makes completing a busy flight all the more satisfying and a degree of "self loading" makes FS more enjoyable.

I like the virtual flight engineer on the Concorde because, otherwise, I find fuel handling tends to get totally out of control. I am tempted to try FS2 Crew for the Level D 767 - just to see how realistic the multi-crew simulation is but I have a feeling that it will soon take longer to organise an FS flight than a real one with all the extra programmes and modules that need to be initialised.

ATB,

Brian W

migman29 · Post by **migman29** » 16 May 2006, 19:37

DaveB wrote:Mark..

Tonks has plenty of experience with the real VC10 but none in flightsim as he doesn't have flightsim :shock:

Brian Withers is a good man to comment as he's used to 4-engined jets/props with a flightdeck crew to match and is an active simmer Likewise, as has already been mentioned, Peter McLeland

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Well Dave I'm amazed.I thought Tonks was a big time simmer.Though I suppose if he want's to "fly" a VC10 he can always jump into the VC10 simulator

Mark :-({|=

Chris Trott · Post by **Chris Trott** » 16 May 2006, 19:50

If anyone is interested, go to - http://www.gates.to , download FSNet, and then send me a PM or e-mail and we'll see if we can get it to work on your computer and let you experience the world of a shared cockpit.

ChrisHunt · Post by **ChrisHunt** » 22 May 2006, 09:09

From the responses it seems that crew workload in FS is greater and that doesn't surprise me. I tend to hand fly most of the time (apart from when just doing straight and level stuff) so I don't normally have to deal with too many nobs and switches at critical times. Conversely though I tend to have to rely more on what's outside for reasonabley accurate flying.

Chris