BAe146 services inaugurated

Post by **DaveB** » 26 Oct 2006, 01:36

Hi DM..

Sri this thread has been dragged off a wee bit but I've given that FD for the Islander a quickie and managed a 0 fpm landing at GUE and fuel was bang on what I'd planned for

It's not like landing a Dove but a less like landing inverted than it was

Thanks David.. it's much, much better and the model is flyable now.. at long last

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Post by **MALTBY D** » 26 Oct 2006, 16:15

Hi Dave

I did a bit more research on the Islander & refined the FDE slightly.
It should go a bit faster than the previous one.
Fuel burn has been tweaked, so shouldn't be much different in range.
Also a small tweak to get the oil PSI in the green.
http://www.dmflightsim.co.uk/CBFS_BN-2A_3_V2.zip
That will be it now for the Islander!

This FSaviator FDE seems very good.
The G-JOEY FS2002 Trislander download also has a decent text file on how to fly it & it matches exactly what I've found elsewhere so far.
I've adapted this FSaviator FDE it into the Kuhnt Trislander as well. Are you interested in that or are you happy with your current one?

DM

P.S. Gone off the 146 completely now. Tried a run from Edinburgh to London City. Bailed out before completing & cancelled the flight. :sad:
Might take up Islanders instead.

Post by **RAF_Quantum** » 26 Oct 2006, 18:17

Hi DM,

I've tried your v2 (skipped over v1) Islander FDE and it makes it a much more civilized aircraft. Yes please for the Trislander

I've done a few flights in the Eurowings 146-200 and have found it OK-ish. I've downloaded the JM models and will try those next once I get my head round ML's panel again. Many moons ago I did a fair bit of flying in the 146STA and did quite a few tweeks to make it feel 'right' for me. Main prob I found was the autopilot NAV and ILS hold which was horrid.

These are the changes I made (in red) to the aircraft.cfg of JM's 146-STA

[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar=1.000
pitch_stability=1.6
roll_stability=1.5
yaw_stability=0.5
parasite_drag_scalar=1.0
induced_drag_scalar=0.85
elevator_effectiveness=1.0
aileron_effectiveness=0.8
rudder_effectiveness=1.000
elevator_trim_effectiveness=1.5
aileron_trim_effectiveness=1.000
rudder_trim_effectiveness=1.000

[Reference Speeds]
flaps_up_stall_speed= 125.000
full_flaps_stall_speed= 98.000
cruise_speed= 400.000
max_indicated_speed=351.000000
max_mach=0.729980

[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=1
default_vertical_speed=1500.000
autothrottle_available=0
autothrottle_arming_required=1
autothrottle_takeoff_ga=1
autothrottle_max_rpm=95.000
pitch_takeoff_ga=8.000
use_no_default_bank=1
use_no_default_pitch=1
default_pitch_mode=0
default_bank_mode=0
max_pitch=10.000000
max_pitch_acceleration=1.000000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.500000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.000000
max_bank=25.000000
max_bank_acceleration=1.800000
max_bank_velocity=3.000000
max_throttle_rate=0.100000
nav_proportional_control=16.000000
nav_integrator_control=0.170000
nav_derivative_control=0.000000
nav_integrator_boundary=2.500000
nav_derivative_boundary=0.000000
gs_proportional_control=25.000000
gs_integrator_control=0.530000
gs_derivative_control=0.000000
gs_integrator_boundary=0.700000
gs_derivative_boundary=0.000000
yaw_damper_gain=1

The elevator trim wasn't very powerful and in fact in cruise the out of trim light was on all the time. Upping the effectiveness cured this.

Stall speeds seemed a bit close to approach speeds so I decreased them by 10kts

Autopilot NAV and ILS holds were useless. On a NAV hold you meandered all over the countryside and shooting a successful ILS was a very hit and miss affair. These cured them for me.

I stress that these these were the mods I made to the 146-STA but I have no reason to suspect they won't work equally as well on the 200/300 variants. I'll be trying them myself shortly.

Rgds

John

TobyV · Post by **TobyV** » 26 Oct 2006, 18:30

I see that the cure for this was to alter the gains on the various terms of the PID controllers. I was thinking a while ago of posting an explanation of PID control on the developer board and I might just do that now if it'd be of interest to people?

Post by **DaveB** » 26 Oct 2006, 18:36

DM..

Many thks for that and yes please for the revised Trislander FD

Having flown from GUE to Biggin this afternoon (and back) the only thing more boring than flying the Islander really IS watching paint dry. It makes little more (in fact less than) the Rapide.. currently goes around 25kts faster and burns around 40% more fuel :roll: I'm looking forward to trying V2

Have you noticed the oddity with the prop pitch?? Pull the levers back and instead of the fuelburn dropping, it increases :shock: Sad thing is that the speed drops too :madhead: Did someone have the instructions upside down I wonder??? :think:

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Post by **MALTBY D** » 26 Oct 2006, 19:43

Ok, here's the FSaviator Kuhnt (no offense) Trislander files.
FSaviator Pilot handling notes included.
http://www.dmflightsim.co.uk/CBFS_BN-2AMk3_3.zip

Dave, I only wish I knew what you were on about.

I'm only just starting getting to grips with propellors & am not doing very well.
Thought I'd made great strides today by devouring a long piece on flying variable pitch props.
Obviously did me no good at all.

Likewise, Toby. I couldn't even tell you what a PID is, nevermind how to adjust its gain. Please do explain away.

I'm getting that 'University Challenge' feeling.

DM

TobyV · Post by **TobyV** » 26 Oct 2006, 20:47

MALTBY D wrote:Likewise, Toby. I couldn't even tell you what a PID is, nevermind how to adjust its gain. Please do explain away.

I'm getting that 'University Challenge' feeling.

DM

Nah, that'd just be Paxo pretending to be knowledgable about things he probably knows less about that the contestants :roll:

Thread is here:
http://www.cbfsim.org/cb-bb/viewtopic.php?t=7798

Post by **DaveB** » 26 Oct 2006, 20:59

You're doing just fine mate and great strides have been made. Had it not been for your intervention, the Islander would have been one prop I certainly wouldn't have flown, manage.. yes, fly.. HELL NO!

I had an idea a couple of weeks ago to try Barry Blaisdell's Twotter with a view to pulling bits over to the Islander but I think that's a load of old pony too. OK.. it's a turbo prop but it flies like a large Extra300 :shock: So much for that idea

Even without the benefit of trying v2.. the Islander is now infinately more pleasing and can actually be flown

With the Trislander in it's 'original' state.. it takes me two landings to get the hang of doing things backwards then I'm ok for pitter-patters. It will be nice to actually fly it with confidence

Btw.. not checked the fuelburn response-to-prop pitch in the Trislander yet. Too busy concentrating on keeping it in the air!!

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Post by **DaveB** » 26 Oct 2006, 22:40

DM..

Just taken the Islander from Jer to Gue by hand and I like v3 very much. Loads of poke.. at least 12kts faster.. fuel consumption better. It's almost like getting out of a Fiesta and into a Cosworth!!

I think I'll be keeping this little tinker.

Loaded up the Trislander files but not had an opportunity to try them yet

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Post by **MALTBY D** » 26 Oct 2006, 22:51

I haven't done a lot with this Islander / Trislander FDE. It's Mr FSaviators work.
I just lined it up with the Kuhnt model and tweaked it for FS2004 drag & incidence differences really.

Can anyone else check out the prop settings on it?
My swotting up on variable pitch props was only to understand how to use it properly in FS.
I'd still never have noticed that the Islander was doing anything wrong though. Don't think I'll ever quite get it.

Thanks for the PID explaination Toby. Ah, took me back to the Trident model's auto land experiments. :axe:
Particularly the phrase 'try reducing all gains and start over!'

It's nice to finally know what all those settings are supposed to be doing.

DM