Interesting programme C4 Monday

DispatchDragon · Post by **DispatchDragon** » 28 Aug 2006, 03:35

Actually its was Just Errol - The Duke was in China sorting out the nipponese in the Flying Tigers and Ronnie was teaching pilots how to recognise Zeros.

And Now for something completely different

How many here have actually watched ALL of "Target for Tonight"

Leif

Im sorry guys the devil made me do it or maybe the RN - I forget which

delticbob · Post by **delticbob** » 28 Aug 2006, 09:22

Two hours before the Douglas Bader programe, on BBC1 at 5.00pm there is a 60min programme on the Red Arrows. Offering an insight into the selection process for two new members of the team.

I don't know. You wait ages for a good terrestrial TV aviation programme & two come along together :dance:

Bob

Filonian · Post by **Filonian** » 28 Aug 2006, 21:14

I have just switched back on after watching this programme.

It was not the total character assassination I was expecting - a real sting in the tail, and no, that's not a typo.

I was a bit concerned intially, as it is the vogue these days to wait until the person concerned has passed awayd cannot defend themselves.

Graham

TobyV · Post by **TobyV** » 28 Aug 2006, 21:27

I watched it and I enjoyed it. Obviously we can never be sure and the historian at least admitted that. He did have some good simple arguments though for his version of events and much as we hate to see the legends of heros altered or to have anyhting taken away from them, there does sound to me a credible case for this version of events. As to where the wreckage is(was?), given who this pilot was, was it not conceivable that it was removed at the time?

Hot_Charlie · Post by **Hot_Charlie** » 28 Aug 2006, 22:40

TobyV wrote:I watched it and I enjoyed it. Obviously we can never be sure and the historian at least admitted that. He did have some good simple arguments though for his version of events and much as we hate to see the legends of heros altered or to have anyhting taken away from them, there does sound to me a credible case for this version of events. As to where the wreckage is(was?), given who this pilot was, was it not conceivable that it was removed at the time?

Who dunnit then?

cstorey · Post by **cstorey** » 28 Aug 2006, 22:45

As usual, a complete load of drivel

TobyV · Post by **TobyV** » 28 Aug 2006, 23:19

Hot_Charlie wrote:
TobyV wrote:I watched it and I enjoyed it. Obviously we can never be sure and the historian at least admitted that. He did have some good simple arguments though for his version of events and much as we hate to see the legends of heros altered or to have anyhting taken away from them, there does sound to me a credible case for this version of events. As to where the wreckage is(was?), given who this pilot was, was it not conceivable that it was removed at the time?
Who dunnit then?

If you didnt see the program HC, basically they spent time digging up aircraft wrecks in Northern France in between which they built up a picture of Bader's early life, including showing that Bader's pre-accident log book totalled 440 flying hours and his new one, 6 years on when he joined thee RAF for the war effort, started at "approximately 500 solo + 70 dual" which put him a step up. The historian contended this was evidence that he might not be depended on always for being truthful. I thought that was a bit thin personally but later stuff was more compelling.

None of the aircraft they excavated turned out to be Bader's. Bader was taken prisoner of course and was actually received by Adolf Galland and some JG26 officers at a house that Galland had pinched off some French. There were photos of Bader with the German officers and the historian said in his interview with Galland, he related that Bader wanted to know which of his men had shot him down. Neither Galland nor his men knew who it was apparently. Obviously for there to have been such a serious collision with a Bf109 then the Germans ought to have lost one.

Seemingly the only recorded German loss from that Sqn on that day was one Herr Schlager, who's aircraft they did unearth and who was claimed by another British pilot and the report written by that pilot after the battle, clearly identifies Schlager's aircraft.

However, another pilot from Bader's Sqn claimed an 109 which he said he shot the tail off. He describes the aircraft as being alone (as Bader was on that day) and said the pilot took some while in bailing out (which might have been true of Bader, with reference to his false legs).

So the historian's suggestion was that Bader was shot down in a friendly-fire incident and later Bader changed his story to that of a collisio,n either to protect his own ego or to protect the pilot that shot him down.

Given the paper evidence he had, the conclusion seemed fairly logical. However, there isnt sufficient evidence I dont think to conclusively prove anything at the moment.

righthandseat · Post by **righthandseat** » 29 Aug 2006, 17:36

The conclusions offered in the programme were plausable. I did n't notice too much 'bickering' among the 'experts'. :think:

Nigel H-J · Post by **Nigel H-J** » 30 Aug 2006, 12:55

Having watched the programme to the end I can honestly say that it surprised me!!

Friendly fire was a big problem in combat as you only had a few seconds, if that, to react, back in the Seventies and helping out at an airshow at the old Bardney Airfield I was priviledged to meet and spend some time talking to one of the Aces of the Battle of Britain....Wing Commander Stanford Tuck, he told me when discussing airiel combat that there was very little time to ID an aircraft during a pitched battle and mistakes were inevitably made!!