Dove planned!

markyp · Post by **markyp** » 14 Aug 2006, 12:44

Hi guys,

Just planning my first flight in the Dove with some fuel figures.
As I am using a CH Throttle quad I am using Dave's figures from that other thread. I just want to check I am doing this right!!

So she will cruise @ 160 KIAS.
So I base the first hour on 198Kgh - 3000/+7.5
The hours after that 125Kgh - 2400/+2

I say that as if the flight is under an hour then do I simply take on the figure based 198Kgh? Or does it get more complex than that?

Taxi - 5IG??

Does all this sound about right, as this is all very new to me at the moment..!?

Thanks in advance

Mark

Post by **Garry Russell** » 14 Aug 2006, 12:52

Hi Mark

On the aircraft and routes thread in the VA section there are bits and pieces about the Dove.

I'm not sure if what you want is there but I mention it in case you were not aware.

Failing that I'm sure someone will be along soon.

Regards

Garry

Post by **DaveB** » 14 Aug 2006, 13:22

Hello Mark,

What software are you using for your flightplanning?? I always use FSNavigator but even this, as good as it is, is wildly inaccurate in the area of fuelburn.

What I do with any aircraft I'm unfamiliar with is to choose a flight and load it full of fuel. Now, if you usually start at the gate.. start taking notes on your consumption there and see how much you use to get from there to the hold. If it's a big airport with a good run out to the hold.. it doesn't matter as at smaller airports, you will always be fuel in hand

With the Dove in particular, your takeoff power (3000/+7.5) is for 5mins max (although on this model.. you won't burn the engines out if you keep it there forever.. you just use far too much fuel)

Now.. you will already have made a note of your fuel state at the hold so pull your power down at around 120/125kts to say 2600/+4 and as soon as you are at your cruise alt, make a note again. In the cruise, you know you are going to get around 116kgh burn at 2400/+2 and this figure you can rely on. At the begining of descent, make another note of your fuel state and once more, at the gate.

In the case of FSNavigator, if you put your climb burn in, your cruise burn and your descent burn (actual figures), you'll find that the data you get out for the same flight will not tally with what you've just burned. FSNav only takes into consideration where you start the plan from (usually the begining of the departure runway to the begining of the arrival runway plus routing so.. in order for your actual fuel to be even vaguely reflected in FSNav.. massage the climb, cruise and descent figures until the program gives you something close to what you've actually burned. When it comes time to fly online, you can round-up to the nearest hundred then add on an appropriate amount for diversion/poor weather e t c.

This method is far from foolproof but it does work for most circumstances. Your get out of jail free card lies in the additional amount of fuel you decide to carry

Try it and see!! It works for me

ATB

DaveB :tab:

markyp · Post by **markyp** » 14 Aug 2006, 14:19

Thanks for that.

That is a real help.

I still think there must be some set figures pilots use rather than this kind of guess work!?

Brian Withers managed to give me accurate figures that the real aircraft uses for the Dragon Rapide which work fine, it seems like for the Dove this is all a bit unknown for some reason!

I can no problem do the test but just wondered that was all!

P.S Pls see my post in the VA Section under aircraft!

Thanks

Mark

Post by **DaveB** » 14 Aug 2006, 14:45

Hi Mark,

Yes.. have seen your post down in the VA and replied accordingly

The known figures for the Dove are no less available than those for the Rapide mate.. it's just that for planning purposes (using addon software), putting in accurate figures doesn't always equate to what the program will report. For example.. in the climb (I'll use the Dove as an example), you will have taken off at max power (3000/+7.5) and then reduced to one of any number of climb settings. There is no particular hard and fast setting for the climb or indeed for the cruise for that matter as any number of factors need to be taken into consideration. Do you want best climb, normal climb, or climb for best endurance?? Exactly the same problem can be thrown at your cruise setting. 2400/+2 is not the only cruise setting but it is the one that will give you the best fuel consumption. Much also depends on the altitude you wish to cruise at as many of the higher settings cannot be attained at altitude. It's been some time since I've taken the Dove up high but as an example, 2800/+6 cannot be maintained at around 8000ft. OK.. you'll be able to dial on 2800 but you will not see +6 boost as there isn't enough oxygen at that altitude to provide it. You would therefore select a lower setting

One thing that will always be constant is your fuel burn at a given setting so whether you are at 8000ft or 2000ft, you will still see 116kgh at 2400/+2 and like for like with the other settings

You will also notice that groundspeed to altitude does not play such a great role flying aircraft like the Dove as you will not go fast enough or high enough. These things could go higher than 10,000ft but a lack of pressurisation and oxygen meant/means that you are restricted to below this altitude. I normally fly at 5000ft or less in the Dove.. depending on length of flight and terrain I am flying over but.. if you want to gain a few extra kts.. fly her at around 1500ft - 2400/+2 and you'll see around 163kias on the clock.. depending on weight

ATB

DaveB :tab:

markyp · Post by **markyp** » 14 Aug 2006, 18:17

Hi Dave,

Ok with you on that. Thankyou again!

With the Rapide I was given a standard figure for the taxi & takeoff for what Air Atlantique use which is 29lbs...

That I think is my main question now...

Well I just ran a test flight and it took 3 Gallons to get from the deck to 5000ft which is about where I will fly her!? I take it that is US Gallons?

So about 5 Gallons for taxi 3 for takeoff to the cruise sound about right?
I have then based the flight on cruise of 125kgh.
Chosen an alternate - based on 125kgh

Thanks again

Mark

bigred1970 · Post by **bigred1970** » 15 Aug 2006, 02:04

hey I just downloaded this plane too. one of the better twins I have seen, I can see why it was successfull it has a LOT of room for the power, compare to the comander 500 which is about the same power.... the flight deck is strange though kind of like the roof was a afterthougth.....

Post by **DaveB** » 15 Aug 2006, 11:56

Hi Mark,

That's as good a place as any to start

You can if you so wish, use your start/taxi/takeoff/climb to alt figure as your descent figure as this will always keep you on the plus rather than the minus side

I don't know about you Mark but I'd dearly love to see a 'Gallons' option on the load page at FlyNET as my head doesn't do gallons to pounds without more effort than necessary.. hence, I use Kg for the most part :sad:

Oh.. and yes, the gallons you will see disappearing in flightsim are US gallons

BR..
The flightdeck roof is a bit odd on the Dove isn't it but you'll find it does fit with the overall design of the aircraft. Getting into the front of a Dove is not as easy as you'd imagine as first off, you step up into it. Once in this cramped position, you then have to bend your left leg up and over the pedestal into the foot well then drag the rest of you in! I'd hate to have to get out of one in a hurry

The flightdeck area is raised to miss the nose gear bay and were the bubble not put in the roof, you'd be sat in a mighty uncomfortable position with your head to one side!!

ATB

DaveB :tab:

bigred1970 · Post by **bigred1970** » 15 Aug 2006, 14:46

lol I was thinking more along the lines that it almost looks like a open cockpit plane with a roof stuck on at the last minute, like some fo the planes in the 20's and 30's that had a enclosed cabin but the guy flying the think out in the breeze.

yeah I am 6'3" and 280 pounds probably have as much fun getting into that as I did my friend's mg midget,