BEA book by Charles Woodley

Post by **RAF_Quantum** » 09 Aug 2006, 23:24

Hi Garry

The book I have on the Viscount and Vanguard shows a pic on p94 of a Vanguard with the small square on the tail. Although it's a bit difficult to read the reg, I'm 99% sure it looks like G-APEF.

Rgds

John

Post by **RAF_Quantum** » 09 Aug 2006, 23:28

Hi Garry

Just found this pic as well so 'EF definately had the small square.

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1003554/

Co-incidentally, both aircraft look as though they have been caught on the same stand, although 'EF pic is an earlier date as the taxiway markings have been burnt off and repositioned on the photo of 'EC

Rgds

John

Post by **Garry Russell** » 09 Aug 2006, 23:41

Cheers John

Looks like it may have been large square from the 953.

EA and EB both had large squares in 1962

I really doubt that pic of EC was taken in 1965.

Garry

petermcleland · Post by **petermcleland** » 09 Aug 2006, 23:42

Davem2004 wrote:Hello Garry,

Thanks again for the info.

Found this on Wikipedia. It's dated as 1965 which, with the Trident in the background, I would imagine would be about right. The surprising thing (for me at least) is that both the Vanguards have still got the small red square on the tail. When did the change-over come about for the Vanguards to the larger red square?

Notice the swing round stands...No Jetways then and we had forward and rear door airstairs fitted...I remember it well...No need for pushbacks...Bliss!!

Post by **Garry Russell** » 09 Aug 2006, 23:47

Hi Peter

Looks so calm and peaceful by comparison

What were they like to fly?...........given that you were quite used to fighters and this was the largest with manual controls.

I guess if you try to hurry it it would be heavy, but a smooth sedate control an she would respond nicely.

ATB

Garry

DispatchDragon · Post by **DispatchDragon** » 09 Aug 2006, 23:55

All these photos bring back memories of the viewing gallery at LAP
(oh dear Im going to catch something for that) - can remember going there several times when we lived in Harrow, the odd smell of Kerosene, that AWFUL airport coffee and sandwiches in wax paper.... Oh well enough revere......back to work

Leif

petermcleland · Post by **petermcleland** » 10 Aug 2006, 00:10

Garry Russell wrote:
Looks so calm and peaceful by comparison

What were they like to fly?...........given that you were quite used to fighters and this was the largest with manual controls.

I guess if you try to hurry it it would be heavy, but a smooth sedate control an she would respond nicely.

We got very fast with them...descending right to Bovingdon at 330 knots...On a short sector like a Paris or Manchester we could even equal the sector time of the Trident...Remember, the Tridents were new and were all Captained by very senior and elderly chaps who were still flying exactly to the book and slowing down early.

Nob West had this great system, on the Vanguard, where whoever was flying it would aim to choose the exact point at altitude to pull the throttles closed and descend at high speed. If you had to open the throttles again before you joined the ILS glidepath...you failed. All manually flown of course and great fun...Lovely controls but you needed to keep adjusting the elevator trim right down to the flare point...Unless your name was Nob West (He would just say to the First Officer "I have control" and he would NEVER trim and would ALWAYS grease it on.

Dick Stewart, Nob West and I were crewed up for whole Summers at a time and Beer Fines were awarded against the landing pilot for something that was less than brilliant...The fines had to be settled at the next available nightstop...Seemed to me that Dick and I were the only ones who bought any beer :think:

Post by **Garry Russell** » 10 Aug 2006, 00:26

Thanks very much for that Peter.

As always a very entertaing look from the inside out

......not a bit like the stuffy text books

Sounds like a great time............and that was work.

It is a pity the it didn't present the right image to Joe Public. :sad:

BEA started cutting fares with them so the accountants were more than happy as well.

ATB

Garry

Davem2004 · Post by **Davem2004** » 10 Aug 2006, 13:56

Here's a pic from January 1964...

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1003619/

'Echo Lima' is visible in the foreground with the large red square and an unidentified 951 is visible with the small square.

I'm inclined to agree Garry, I think the picture of 'Echo Charlie' is more likely to be from '64 than '65.

I think I can feel a trivia quest coming on..."When did the little red square disappear?"

:think: :think:

Post by **DaveB** » 10 Aug 2006, 14:01

You know.. I look at pics similar to these all the time and have not noticed the size of the red square before

My eyes are open but they do not see!!

ATB

DaveB :tab: