New Addition.

[Nigel H-J]

Hi Dave, good to hear from you especially with a run-down of your flying which is always a treat read!!

TBH, I have never yet read the flight manual on the auto-pilot trusting my instincts on a previous version I flew in FSX many years ago but there are a couple of things to ask since you have flown this type of bird. Firstly, on setting the altitude you want the Pitch Command does not like to play with me , inbound to Glasgow yesterday for R/W05 I set the Pitch CMD down a couple of notches with the Alt Hold selected to Off and had already dialled in my new altitude setting it at 5,500ft due to hilly areas however, no response on pitch so in the end cancelled auto-pilot and eased the nose down manually
then re-selecting AP once in the desired pitch for descent with the a/c capturing height at selected alt.

For Auto App I selected the co-pilot side then the left side as well with heading select off and Alt Hold Off taking control at decision height of three 'undred for manual flare. Whether it is a trait of built in X-Plane 11 aerodynamics or my flying but the actual flare to touch-down sometimes ends up with control of the aircraft being 'me - now you - now me!! Though the touch down is smooth it is just the last ten feet is where I get some pitching problems or could it be 'Ground Effect' that causes this as I try to use very little input to flare on the last ten feet aiming for a smooth butter like landing. Incidentally I have found landing with full flap to be harder than with one notch up.

I think this aircraft is going to be one that I will continue to fly most of the time as it really is a great aircraft to fly and I never use the FMC to navigate just VOR's and ADF's and of course the auto-pilot!!

Hope you are keeping safe and well Dave and are you still flying at Compton Abbas?

Regards
Nigel.

[dfarrow]

Nigel , hope you and yours well . Think for flight systems RTFM [ read the flippin' manual ] applies . To understand how to use it , and FS a/c may not totally work as the real world ones .
I've an apology to make ... Don't think I RTFpictureaccurately... The A/P engagement paddles say Ail and Elev , so maybe only 1 a/p .
looking at the picvture more closely ..
LH panel is FD controls .
RH panel is A/P controls which are indepedent of each other .. And think A/P is in CWS when engaged ..so you fly the attitude you want through your normal stick .. Thus to descend .. Alt hold OFF . select the attitude you want with stick , closing throttle manually . When at the speed you want maybe can select IAS .. from about FL280 down 320 kts , throtts closed should give you about 3000fpm.. Cannot see a Mach hold , so from mid 30000' lower nose and gently accellerate , not busting the ' barbers pole ' VMO/MMO . until you can get the descent speed you want [ 300-320 ]
IAS should also work in climb , with clb power set , select att. for 300-320 kts [ up to FL 280 ] select IAS . Speed will be held . [ Hopefully ]
Level off I'm sure will be for you to lift the nose with your stick to reduce rate of descent , when at Ht engage Aly hold .
The Hdg sw. engages so that reqired hdg. can be select from Capts. HSI . This is all on A/P panel ..
For an ILS get to about 180 kts F5 at about 15 nm out , on an interceot hdg select VOR LOC , a/c should then establish on localiser , when G/S alive select Auto App. Should then follow G/S .. NO Autoland .....

FD panel , think you select to mirror A/P , with some exceptions . Man G/A only . Think Man G/S on both panels is for Loc. only app.

Final app. make sure A/P sw. Off .
F30 app , 1/2 degree nose up on A/H [ AI ] , 1.3 Epr , are datum figures. IAS ? brain lost it but perhaps 140kts IAS.
F40 app , 0 degrees nose att , 1.4 Epr , IAS ...maybe 135.
That's for full load of pax and about 3-4 tonnes of fuel .
F40 was always more stable , and nicer , easier to fly . But more noise/fuel ... And keep her in trim !
Correct technique always more important than ' butter smooth landing ' !
Not sure if sim does it , but select auto speed brake , and min . med , or max A/ brake ..... makes life much better when wrestling a X-wind down the runway pedalling like fury and trying to stand on brakes as well . Don't forget when on Rwy wid th trott closed , select a minimum of reverse Idle . Cancelling Rev at 60 kts ... Unless you need full rev. to a stop .... Jersey !

Yep , still at CA , last med. showed me ageing , and last summer was manic . So have dropped admin and other stuff , reducing to 2 days a week 'destructing .

rgds dave f.

[Dev One]

Dave,
From your explanantions above it would seem that different 737 models could have different autopilot systems fitted depending upon how cheap & cheerful the operator wanted to be as well as different configurations between models? So is one licenced to fly only certain models if one works for an airline with a mixed model fleet?
Just wondering how different the -800 was because of the aero problem caused by repositioning & enlarging the engines? I don't fly tube liners so not used to Autopilots....
Keith
P S still trying to get back into Bad mike Beta 9, getting there slowly...

[dfarrow]

Keith , good to hear from you . I've just started to wake up from hibernating in these recent dull and dark days ..
Early 737-100s and 200s had flight sys. that Nigel has . -100s were only a few , Lufty and United ,-200s up to about 1980 , as Nigels .
The -200 ADVs or Ba called 'em Super 73 , had an analogue APFD system much as we see in new 73s now , but analogue . With a dual a/p enabling A/land down to Cat 3A ...50' radio ht. and 200m RVR . Below that 3 of everything is needed [ apart from engines ] , 73s only have 2 .
Early -300s same flight sys , and still with round dial [ clockwork ] flight instruments , then as signal generators and glass A/H , HSI , became smaller ...Specifically in length -300s had glass/TV ADI [ A/H ] and HSI [ DI ] , -400s -500s the same . These fits were normally common to all airlines 'cheep or expensive . Varying radios fits could be accomodated , and Ba on it's -400s expensively insisted on a tiller arm for the Co as well as the skippers .
300,400,500's glass cockpit was only partial , ADI and HSI [ inc map ].
-600,-700,-800,-900s have a full glass cockpit , some inc. TV standby flight instruments ASI , Alt , A/H .With digital APFD sys. But all the controls for it in the same place . Push buttons instead of levers , and mode control panels lights [ LED ? ] instead of rotating indicators ....A La' James Bond rotating Aston M. number plates . Probably not so much choice in radio/avionics fit to save production costs .

Maxs will have an improved -800 Tv sets , bigger screens with more info available .

Think it was 'Tinmouse' who had a good basic paneled 732 , and later an ADV 732 with a mostly fully functional APFD.[ FS 02 and 04 ].And PMDG excellent 73 -600 ,-700,-800s .Whose Flight systems work extremely well including FMC . From these came almost a standardised APFD across 75,76, 747-400 , 777 ........... Made conversion courses somewhat less difficult , 'tho all those have an horrible S++++y brown cockpit . 73s a super light grey blue ...much better working environment .

Hope this answers some questions .

rgds dave f.

[Nigel H-J]

Hi Dave and very many thanks for your tutorial which I will certainly follow on my next flight.

Did a return to Heathrow from Glasgow yesterday and only set AP on after I had set the climb manually i.e. 2500 fpm. once a/c levelled at height I then selected Alt Hold then VOR/LOC remaining there before manually applying descent before selecting A/P again.

Auto-Approach till 300ft then manual control to touch down, not sure whether the spoilers come out automatically but will try that later.

Again, your detailed description regarding the A/P is extremely interesting and helpful and very grateful for your time in putting it all together.

Babs joins me in wishing and your wife all the very best.

Regards
Nigel.

[chrispbits]

Also known as the pocket rocket if I remember correctly. The last time I flew on one of those was Heathrow to Manchester - original flight way overbooked so dragged this thing over, possibly from freezer storage. Very cold onboard to begin with but it got us there so no-one was complaining.

[dfarrow]

Chrisp , That'd be Shuttle .. When Shuttle 1st started [ 12Jan '75 ] front line a/c were T3s , with T1s as back up ... If frontline was full , then us 'back up 'Bois' [ Parker Knoll sqdn. ] rattled off with the overflow 10 mins later . In time Ts went , 75s [ 1st flt 40 yrs ago yesterday ! ] took over frontline with S111s as back up . Eventually 732s became back ups ... Until it became again a bookable service , away from the turn up and take off ethos of proper Shuttle .
Back up a/c were cold until started , they may have not been used for a few days . When starting Shuttle Back Up duty , you went out to allocated a/c [ normally just outside of crew standby room ] and preflighted it , made sure standard fuel load was onboard ; but that did not include starting APU . If/When called out , just climb on board , batt on , light APU , Pax on and go ....
When Shuttle first started , everyone was getting practiced . Including journalists who were testing the ''turn up and t/o'' promise .
So the Back Up sqn had it as a challenge to be drinking a cuppa in GLA waving the Frontline T3 push back , saunter out and push back 10 mins behind Frontline .....
If we wern't in the Shuttle crew room in LHR having a cuppa waving in the said frontline , we'd done it wrong .
Had a 15 kts speed advantage , not heavy , go low , go VMO , badger for short cuts and a quick short app... In the doom and gloom of the mid '70s , just months from being laid off , innocent days indeed , but journos happy .
In time , there might not have been a b/u a/c in each station , LHR , GLA , EDI , BFS , MAN ... and the concept of the Iris[H] back up evolved .... with computerisation it became known which were the likely overfull flights , which need back ups . Iris , [a bright young Shuttle Controller] suggested , send the back up early with the early people in the lounge . Frontline then on normal time not full , and back up a/c in GLA etc. where it was needed to back up the next south bound . Thus Irish back up .. Very occaisional ferry flights N/S bound , a few more empty hops from GLA-EDI etc. And in mid 70s , a/c or crews [ volunteers only ] were not left in BFS overnight , so an empty hop back and forth to GLA , then with pax .. And as times improved a/c nightstopped BFS and Loganair contracted to operate the BFS-GLA with Vomit Comets [ Short 330s ] . Until much later crews back n/stopping in BFS .

rgds dave f.

[TSR2]

I remember my Dad getting the shuttles for work, and I remember at busy times (Christmas I think) or maybe if a flight had been cancelled he was on a TriStar on at least a couple of occasions.

[dfarrow]

Ben , that would be right , to clear a back log or Christmas ; 3 T1 loads in 1 a/c . Amazing really when she came into service in '74 , she was bigger than the school I attended 3 yrs previously or our local cinema . Was privileged to fly her 25 yrs laters when she was in her dottage , but a very capable performer with an amazing wing .
BFS in the worst of the troubles had a twice daily Tristar service , was not good at all . Shuttle extending to BFS was great for NI . Domestic routes need frequency to be of use .
GLA and EDI on Scotland Vs England rugby / 'footie , were catered for with a 20 min service using the back up resources , on the hour would be the frontline T3 , then 20 past and 20 to would be T1s. Shifted hugh amounts both before and after the game .
Crew never had a works Christmas party in my 36 yrs [ or one I was invited to ! ] . Except when last pax cleared at Christmastime , the shuttle lounge hosted an official Shuttle staff Christmas party , and jolly good it was too .

rgds dave f.