Alphasim to stop making military models?

[Quixoticish]

I've just noticed a post on Sim Outhouse that links to some German forums and someone appears to be quoting Phil saying that they "don't want to make military models any more".

Even given everything that went on with the forums recently this came as something of the shock to me and although there has been some friction between AS and CBFSim in the past I'm sure you'll all agree it would be a major loss if Alphasim pulled out of the military addons market.

http://flusi.movie2digital.at/index.php ... post120489

[DaveB]

I think this is old hat Chris. Certainly, it's something I've been aware of for longer than I can remember! CBFS and Alpha have crossed swords before but Alpha would always be the first to agree that whatever UK aircraft they produced were not going to make any money as the market for them was too small. Slightly more severe sabre rattling has come from SoH and is also well documented.
I don't think that our combined buying power was ever a fraction of Alpha's WW sales so whatever we might have done as allies would have remained no more than a thorn in the side. ;-)

They know more than any of us here what is happening in the market from their sales figures and there are only so many military jets you can build before the market is full. They look at their major market and aim toward that as any commercial operation would. If this means they're producing stuff folk aren't buying.. then it makes sense to try something that they might buy.

Should Alpha move into the civilian (GA or otherwise) market, then good luck to them. To say it's the end of their military production run will be a sad day.. for us here in the UK especially as we probably feel there is still much undone. However.. if the much undone is only going to be a niche market anyway with poor sales.. why go there.

The cheap and cheerful days we all remember are long gone anyway and for the buyers.. the market has changed to value per dollar. FSX has caused a much increased gestation period which means longer periods without income without more modellers. One might say.. the circle has turned 360. Whatever, I wish them all the best and hope the name doesn't die ;-)

ATB

DaveB :tab:

[Seaking]

Sometimes Dave...................progress sucks, so much happening in the world and in our beloved sim world. Lets hope !!
Just my thrupence worth

[Trev Clark]

I think this possible change of direction is a result of most of the military developers jumping ship! AS have always used 'freelance' teams and many have gone elsewhere; if that recent 'budget' GA release is the sort of thing they are looking at, they may as well pack in now!

All add-ons now require so much work (since FSX it has got worse), sales figures seem to the only tool for deciding on subject matter in the cold light of day. This hobby can look forward to a bleak time where tubeliners, F16s and even more Cessnas will dominate FS11. This is the major reason why FS9 remains my sim of choice, I have so much wonderful choice of what to fly, I could never get rid of it. This attitude will never pay the bills of payware developers (who always target the simmers that have to buy every 'must have ' new release), so simmers like me (and many others here) have no influence in the future.

We have to look to old and new freeware developers (such as our own here) to fill our desires in future :o , if you see what I mean.

[Ben Hartmann]

I think this possible change of direction is a result of most of the military developers jumping ship! AS have always used 'freelance' teams and many have gone elsewhere; if that recent 'budget' GA release is the sort of thing they are looking at, they may as well pack in now!

Put it this way Trev, if they ever decide to make a decent PA-38 Tomahawk, I tell ya, I will be first in the queue!!!!

Rgds

Ben

[TSR2]

To be honest its not that FSX has made things more difficult, simply, like with every product evolution, you can now do more, and once one person starts "doing more" then punters expect that same level from everyone else. As most of us here are well aware the model and repaints can still be done relatively quickly in FSX, but if you want the highly detailed VC's etc now, which everyone seems to be pushing for, it will often take twice as long as the model itself. Just ask DG or Rick. Even in FS9 land, some of the best developments have taken an age. AFG's Caravelle for one. We've just become very much more demanding, regardless of which sim we use. Even in our hayday DM was averaging 1 a year, sometimes 1 and a half if he had time to update one of his models too. I know very early betas of stuff Rick had done last year, were he was producing 3 or 4 different model Betas over a similar number of months, but it would probably have take a year each further developement to get them to a state where he was happy. Its a vicious circle. New sim = new oppertunities. Most developers want to push the boundries so they are more demanding of themselves and we are more demanding of them. Thats life I'm affraid. :-(

[Quixoticish]

I'd be inclined to agree with Ben, I think punters have began to expect more as a few developers began pushing the boundaries with regards to systems modelling and it's caused many developers to feel that they can't compete and people will always want more than they can deliver. I'd have to disagree with this point, while a lot of people do demand you'll get rude people in any hobby (sadly ours being based around the internet you can't just punch them in the mouth and tell them to shut up).

I think this coupled with the fact that a vocal minority had a hissy fit when FSX was released, promptly threw their toys out of the pram and refused to have anything to do with it causing a divide amongst FSX and FS2004 caused a lot of developers to just give up as they didn't see it being worthwhile any more.

Take Piglet's models as a perfect example of what can be done and look how well received they are, and look at how many he's already produced for FSX. These are of exactly the same standard one would have expected years back in FS2004 but are still fantastic in FSX without all of the advanced systems modelling and bells and whistles, they have all been very well received with no complaints demonstrating that you don't have to slap millions of systems and suchlike onto an aircraft, there is still a huge market for CTRL+E "hop in and fly" freeware, (and payware if suitably priced) especially if the subject matter is suitably niche.

[DaveB]

Hi Chris

You'll remember that there were reasons for all the hissy fit's.. FSX was a right bag of tosh that ended up needing 2 rather large patches. Pre patch 1, Patch 1 and Patch 2 ALL had a significant bearing on aspects of the SDK leaving developers to have to 'start again' after each patch was released. I'm sure this too put many off.

As for Piglet's models.. they fill holes and you get exactly what you expect.. much like Ted Cook's. That's not to say there's anything wrong with them.. they're built to a certain level and that's that. The guy's that download them appreciate the hole that's been filled and these are not the sort of simmers who'll drip about a lack of rivets. How many actually spend time flying them is another question but that's not the issue

ATB

DaveB :tab: