karl
The Rough Guide to Fuel Planning
Moderators: Guru's, The Ministry
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silver-fox
- Meteor
- Posts: 56
- Joined: 07 May 2007, 12:08
- Location: West Yorkshire
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silver-fox
- Meteor
- Posts: 56
- Joined: 07 May 2007, 12:08
- Location: West Yorkshire
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DaveB
- The Ministry
- Posts: 30457
- Joined: 17 Jun 2004, 20:46
- Location: Pelsall, West Mids, UK
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And good luck to ya mate
That's the whole point (well mine anyway) 
I could have been a twit (misspell as you see fit) but what the heck. Why not pass a bit of good fortune on to someone else or as the old saying goes.. one good turn deserves another ATB
DaveB :tab:
Old sailors never die.. they just smell that way!
Don't forget Max landing weight when it comes to fuel loads.
With FlyNet, we always get a full aircraft - the payload & cargo weights are calculated to hit the Max zero fuel weight.
So as an example, using the normal max payload FlyNet weight, a 1-11 500 can then only land with about 2200 kg of fuel onboard. (according to the max land numbers in my docs).
If you arrive with more, you should really burn any extra off before landing.
Trident 3 works out at only 2000 kg, although there's a fair few kg difference with my T3 numbers & the ones on FlyNet.
Trident 2 works out at over 5000 kg.
I'm not sure how many types we have a max landing weight for, but since we fly full payloads on FlyNet, it is something to ponder on.
DM
With FlyNet, we always get a full aircraft - the payload & cargo weights are calculated to hit the Max zero fuel weight.
So as an example, using the normal max payload FlyNet weight, a 1-11 500 can then only land with about 2200 kg of fuel onboard. (according to the max land numbers in my docs).
If you arrive with more, you should really burn any extra off before landing.
Trident 3 works out at only 2000 kg, although there's a fair few kg difference with my T3 numbers & the ones on FlyNet.
Trident 2 works out at over 5000 kg.
I'm not sure how many types we have a max landing weight for, but since we fly full payloads on FlyNet, it is something to ponder on.
DM
Interesting one concerning minimum fuel weights for landing Dave, my calculations without going onto FS is that in having 2,200kg of fuel remaining that probably converts to around 20% of fuel in the tanks equating to around just over 2 tons? Not very much by any means and would require a refuel for a return trip though please corrrect me if I am wrong.
Coming back onto the subject of low fuel after landing, I have to admit I have also been guilty of this on more than one occassion and can see the why this subject has been brought up.
Possible reason for this anomaly, especially by new pilots such as myself is that by purchasing too much fuel for the flight would mean a reduction in income for the VA, so this may well explain the tendency to only refuel what is necessary so as to maximise profit.
In retrospect, if landing with say 20 to 30% of fuel remaining in the aircraft would mean that the next pilot can aim to return with slightly less and recoup the amount lost on the previous flight so all in all it will eventually balance the books. (Hope that made sense) :think:
Regards Nigel.
Coming back onto the subject of low fuel after landing, I have to admit I have also been guilty of this on more than one occassion and can see the why this subject has been brought up.
Possible reason for this anomaly, especially by new pilots such as myself is that by purchasing too much fuel for the flight would mean a reduction in income for the VA, so this may well explain the tendency to only refuel what is necessary so as to maximise profit.
In retrospect, if landing with say 20 to 30% of fuel remaining in the aircraft would mean that the next pilot can aim to return with slightly less and recoup the amount lost on the previous flight so all in all it will eventually balance the books. (Hope that made sense) :think:
Regards Nigel.
I used to be an optimist but with age I am now a grumpy old pessimist.
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DaveB
- The Ministry
- Posts: 30457
- Joined: 17 Jun 2004, 20:46
- Location: Pelsall, West Mids, UK
- Contact:
Hi Nigel,
Of course, it does work out in the end.. especially where the VA is concerned. We, as an airline, are not short of a few bob so the odd glitch is far from disaster
If you're like me and never check available aircraft fuel loads prior to accepting it (I like to live dangerously).. it can be a bummer to pick something up with next to nowt onboard. I recently brought a Super back from the US (a replacement for ASGC which mysteriously went missing!!) and was in a quandry with what fuel to load. Fuel prices at KORD aren't bad but a VC10 will burn gas at a phenominal rate and I couldn't really afford to add the 'realistic' landing fuel (7t) onboard without risking the flight being in minus so I added some intending to add the rest at Montreal. Problem at Montreal is that fuel is 33c per litre more expensive and when you're looking at 40,000kg.. that's a lot of 33c's. The intention was that I land at LHR with 7t but the extra weight meant I burned more so ended up landing with 4326kg.. some 2.6t short. OK.. 4t isn't the end of the world but as low as you'd want to take a VC10 and I was embarrassed that the next chap to fly GC is (if they're playing the numbers game) have to fork out for the additional 2.6t :redface:
Thing is.. if you do a 'like for like' flight with similar routing on the return, you know what you burned on the way out and can (within reason) adjust what you buy on the way back. An alternative is to check the onboard fuel before you book a flight (assuming that there is more than one example available) and check to see if Steve was the last pilot!
ATB
DaveB :tab:
Of course, it does work out in the end.. especially where the VA is concerned. We, as an airline, are not short of a few bob so the odd glitch is far from disaster
If you're like me and never check available aircraft fuel loads prior to accepting it (I like to live dangerously).. it can be a bummer to pick something up with next to nowt onboard. I recently brought a Super back from the US (a replacement for ASGC which mysteriously went missing!!) and was in a quandry with what fuel to load. Fuel prices at KORD aren't bad but a VC10 will burn gas at a phenominal rate and I couldn't really afford to add the 'realistic' landing fuel (7t) onboard without risking the flight being in minus so I added some intending to add the rest at Montreal. Problem at Montreal is that fuel is 33c per litre more expensive and when you're looking at 40,000kg.. that's a lot of 33c's. The intention was that I land at LHR with 7t but the extra weight meant I burned more so ended up landing with 4326kg.. some 2.6t short. OK.. 4t isn't the end of the world but as low as you'd want to take a VC10 and I was embarrassed that the next chap to fly GC is (if they're playing the numbers game) have to fork out for the additional 2.6t :redface:
Thing is.. if you do a 'like for like' flight with similar routing on the return, you know what you burned on the way out and can (within reason) adjust what you buy on the way back. An alternative is to check the onboard fuel before you book a flight (assuming that there is more than one example available) and check to see if Steve was the last pilot!
ATB
DaveB :tab:
Old sailors never die.. they just smell that way!