BAC 1-11 problem

[Garry Russell]

Indeed DB

I can't imagine it was changed as there was virtually no compatibility and all the wiring could well have been different.

I would think it was maintained as ex BCAL down to a rivet and there were probably BCAL spares in the takeover.

.........it just it can't stand for conclusive proof having spent time with BA :think:

Just my "Rumpole" impression.

Any idea what cockpit the 539's had? (G-BGKE,F,G)

Garry

[DaveB]

Hi Garry,

Yes.. it's a bit like asking for a part for a Mini (a real one). You can have the frame number, engine number and year but a likely response will be.. have you got the old bit with you??!!

Those airframes you mention were (as you know and for the benefit of those who don't) registered to BA brand new so there is a liklihood that they had the same (or similar) flightdeck layout to the 510ED's. Can't see BA ordering anything else to be honest but BA have moved in mysterious ways before!!
This said, there is a considerable time difference between the 510's (1968) and the 539's (1980) and the necessity for easy type-rating of One-Eleven pilots to the Trident would not, I doubt, have been an issue though the Trident3's did operate in the 80's :think: Unfortunately, I don't have photographic evidence to confirm either option mate. Might PeterM know I wonder??

ATB

DaveB :tab:

[MALTBY D]

It could have been more a Dan-Air mod.
Bells & horns seem more British to me. Are clacks a bit American? :think:

Can't remember now, but I think Dan-Air's original set of 1-11s may have all been ex-American stock. Maybe they got used to them & adjusted the others to match?
Or maybe not.

I never knew AZMF had been with BA. Had a look in my Airliner production (1986) & it does indeed list a lease to BA in 1978, but only for six months.
Did it go back to BA again after 1986?

DM

[Garry Russell]

Hi Dave

Yes the car parts

Al cars from 1-999 had this bit and from 1001 to date have this.......and I have number 1000. :curse:

As to the 539 I always wondered about the different designation but that could have just been a later built with mods. These were some of the last or perhaps in Britiain the last 500 where as the 510 were the first.

Visually they were built with hush kits and that set them apart for a while until the others had to be modified. Also they had the forward airstairs.

As you say the Trident necessity was fading..the 510 were with the Super One-Eleven division which was Manchester based so were in league with Tridents and these three 539 were BHX based on what had been the Channel Islands division.

I only ever saw them on those routes and they did seem to run separate from the main fleet.

Looking as they did as being a fleet within a fleet I have always wondered it they were more like normal One-Elevens rather than the BA hybrids which was in fact a BEA thing so really goes back to a different set up entirely.

Although there is every reason to assume they were the same, just about every thing about their use was different to the point where it could also be assumed that they were standard One-Elevens. :think:

BA didn't really need them but had to buy a 1-11 for every 10 Boeing 737's ordered....so in a way they were never even wanted. :sad:

That could have meant a straight cheaper off the shelf One-Eleven and then operate them away from the main fleet.

Garry

[MALTBY D]

I do know that the 539 was a standard fit cockpit, not the same spec as the original 510ED.
They were the last Brit built 500s, although BGKE apparently had a Romanian built tail.
They must have used it as a practice run because BA didn't really want them anyway.

DM

[Garry Russell]

Cheers DM

That ties in neatly with my speculation.

One thing about these off the shelf purchases sometimes mentioned.........they must have very big shelves :roll: :think:

Garry

[DaveB]

Yes.. it does seem to conclude very nicely. Why go to the hassle of fitting out an aircraft you don't really want in a non-standard fashion and which would inevitably cost more. It makes sense

The serial numbers and letters are a lot to do with development for the type plus the customers requirements. Those 3 539's are actually 539GL but exactly what the differences are is difficult to tell though some are more obvious than others. 'ZMF' was a 530FX!! :shock:

ATB

DaveB :tab:

[Garry Russell]

Yes Dave

FU :shock: :redface: ..well that's what it said on the plate of a One-Eleven I looked around

The plate said Air Pacific. and what I did notice was it said the type was FU model number 479 so it appeared that to the manufacturer the FU bit was more of interest than the model number. :think:

I remember the type number struck me as being funny.....can't think why :roll:

Garry

[DaveB]

A better explanation of the designators is as follows.. kindly reproduced by me without the authors permission!

Each One-Eleven type was identified by a number derived from the series to which it belonged, and a two letter individual customer code. For instance the two BAC 400 srs development aircraft, G-ASYD and G-ASYE were allocated the 400 code and American Airlines, as the first customer for the 400srs were allocated the number 401. On the production line, large boards above the aircraft identified the aircraft type as AK (ie American Airlines) number one, two etc. So in fact it was the two-letter code that stipulated the changes due to an individual type..
Initially, aircraft were build for definate orders and allocated the type numbers. This was the case for all 200's, 300's, and 400's. However, a number of the 500 and 475 series were built on expectation of an order to a basic standard and would nowadays be referred to as 'White Tails'. For example, these were given the type numbers 500EN or 475EZ and were only modified to suit customer requirements on receipt of an order. This enabled BAC to offer competitive delivery dates and to regularise it's production cycle even if it proved challenging to the sales staff..

So there you go.. clear as mud!

ATB

DaveB :tab:

[MALTBY D]

Yes the designation was pretty much like an order number (or batch number), rather than any significant difference in type.
So the differences between most is minor customer preference & choice of options.
530FX had tartan trimmings and a 539GL has the bog roll holder higher up the wall etc.

There are no multiple combinations of any letters and numbers either.
'424' is always a '424EU' and 'EU' is always a '424EU' too (for TAROM).
You'd never see a 414EU or a 525EU.
'EU' isn't TAROM, but you'd then never get an 'EU' built for anyone else except TAROM. (if you see what I mean :think: )
TAROM also had orders built with letters FT, GK & RC. :madhead:

The letters do loosely indicate the date it was ordered A (earliest) to G (latest). Airlines could re-order more of the same spec years later though so it doesn't always follow alphabetically.
Just remember anywhere between 475 & 499 is a 475 series and any with 'R' as the first letter was built by the Romanians.
The rest are easy.

DM