Turbine Ambassador

Chris Trott · Post by **Chris Trott** » 26 Dec 2006, 12:46

Actually Gary, the Eland Napier installation was intended as a "new build" to meet specific performance needs of the Canadian Air Force as part of their contract with Canadair for the CL-66 (which were new-build aircraft manufactured under license from Convair with the Napiers). When the Eland Napiers proved unsatisfactory in service, the aircraft were converted to CV-580 standard and re-designated as the CL-66B.

Post by **Garry Russell** » 26 Dec 2006, 12:51

No Chris THE AMABAASADOR were never intended to be produced as a turbine aircraft.

I know the Convir was

I was saying you can't compare a test bed Ambassador with an intended to be produced turbine prototype like the Convair was.

Garry :Christmas:

ianhind · Post by **ianhind** » 26 Dec 2006, 23:30

became testbeds only after BEA had done flying them for money

I have not RTFM.

However not certain that BEA flew them for money. 'KRD and 'LFR were both involved with route-proving but did that involve carriage of fare-paying passengers?

I have photos of both the Eland and Dart installations in published works:

Propliner #65 for the Eland which does not look too different from the other engines

British Civil Aircraft since 1919 Vol 1 for the Dart - not a pretty sight!

So I will scan and post those in the next few days.

I had the 3 volumes of British Civil Aircraft since 1919 for Christmas ex Ebay :yipeee: Originally Â£8-50 each in 1974.

Post by **Garry Russell** » 27 Dec 2006, 01:11

That's great you have some pics

Thanks Ian

I remember in the caption of the Dart pic I saw it was describes as an ugly snout.

Garry :Christmas:

ianhind · Post by **ianhind** » 27 Dec 2006, 10:42

As promised, the Eland and Dart Ambassadors (the two Darts were 201P in the port side and the 525 in the starboard side).

JPGs shown, larger BMP files in downloadable zip.

Photo credits as in earlier post.

Also of note is that G-ALZR was a Tyne testbed as well in 1957.

Edit: large BMP files no longer available so URLs removed

Post by **Garry Russell** » 27 Dec 2006, 12:18

Cheers Ian

Surprising the difference in the nacelles on those Darts.

Don't know off hand what a 210P is.........is it one of the Military marks.

What did the Alize use? :think:

The Ellands quite a neat installation

Garry :Christmas:

ianhind · Post by **ianhind** » 27 Dec 2006, 13:00

And looking at the Tyne installation,

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/cra ... Fnb026.htm

the smaller Darts were made to fit the same engine mounting.

As for what a Dart 210P was, engines are not my strong point :roll:

Post by **Garry Russell** » 27 Dec 2006, 14:00

Ian

Funny thing you should mention similar mountings

Due to the disastrous operating cost of the Canadair Four which were sinking the airline, BMA looked at the possibility of fitting Darts to the three aircraft

To their surprise they found the pick up points of the Merlin was the same.

Looks like a lot of similarity between the RR types in that respect.

They moved onto Viscounts instead as they were move available and they did a deal with BUA which saw them shed the Herald....but it would have been interesting.

Garry :Christmas:

DispatchDragon · Post by **DispatchDragon** » 27 Dec 2006, 19:10

Garry beat me to it
I was about to say the Eland mountings look quite natural on the Lizzie.

I wonder how effective they were?? makes the old girl look rather Twee

Leif

Post by **Garry Russell** » 27 Dec 2006, 19:39

I read the other day that initial rate of climb on the turbine versions were in the order of 4,500 fpm to contain the speed.

They were a bit "Hot"....a lot more power on an engine that was a lot lighter must have been fun to pilots used to flying the standard version.

Garry :Christmas: