Nimrod

TobyV · Post by **TobyV** » 16 Dec 2006, 23:24

Very obvious commonalities with some other HS types about that cockpit

Apparently, Avro were originally planning to use the Trident as the basis for the Nimrod proposal but for the fact there were some part built Comet 4 'frames around and for that and a few other reasons decided to base it on the Comet instead.

Post by **Garry Russell** » 16 Dec 2006, 23:35

The Comet was also better a low level slow speed flying plus shutting down two engines and loitering

Some how I don't think the Trident could do that :think:

Garry

TobyV · Post by **TobyV** » 17 Dec 2006, 10:16

Garry Russell wrote:The Comet was also better a low level slow speed flying plus shutting down two engines and loitering

Some how I don't think the Trident could do that :think:

Garry

Dont forget Garry, the Comet has four to start with and although it was a bit overpowered with four Avons, the Nimrod has four Speys, so its even more overpowered. Peter McL could confirm, but i suspect it could be possible to fly the Trident on two engines, although probably with all the high lift devices dangling down

The Trident's wing was designed for high speed cruising (low drag) so it wouldnt have suited that task that well. All rather a moot point since of course the Comet was chosen anyway.

Motormouse · Post by **Motormouse** » 17 Dec 2006, 11:06

Garry Russell wrote:It's an R1 Graham

The tea pot's classified

Garry

Motormouse <--------

kit · Post by **kit** » 17 Dec 2006, 20:34

TobyV wrote:
Peter McL could confirm, but i suspect it could be possible to fly the Trident on two engines, although probably with all the high lift devices dangling down

Ooer, not sure I'd like to be in a Gripper trying to take-off on only two! :k:

I can recall flying in and out of Berlin Tegel in the 70s in Gripper 2s and they limited the passenger load outbound because of weight limitations and that was with all three running!

When BA shifted to 1-11s on the route it all seemed a bit safer somehow, if they weren't quite as pretty. Did de Havilland ever design an ugly aeroplane, one that got into production anyway?

Post by **TSR2** » 17 Dec 2006, 21:05

I don't think Toby was suggesting they take off on two, but could reduce to two (in theory) in cruise. Baring in mind that the original Trident design did use speys as they were considered under powered, it would have been interesting to see a Trident that was built to the original design.... before BEA screwed it up.

Jon Rose · Post by **Jon Rose** » 17 Dec 2006, 21:17

And the Americans nicked it.

kit · Post by **kit** » 18 Dec 2006, 08:07

Ben,

Ben Watson wrote:I don't think Toby was suggesting they take off on two, but could reduce to two (in theory) in cruise. Baring in mind that the original Trident design did use speys as they were considered under powered, it would have been interesting to see a Trident that was built to the original design.... before BEA screwed it up.

I'm pleased for that anyway!

The original DH121 Trident was planned for three R-R RB141 Medways with about 12-14000 lbs thrust and an auw of about 140,000 lbs. With the bigger wing that would have made a much more saleable aircraft than the shrunk 'BEA only' version that eventually developed.

And the US did nick the plans too, and called it the Boeing 727, for many years THE biggest selling airliner ever. [Holds up big 'I told you so....' banner]

ukmil · Post by **ukmil** » 18 Dec 2006, 08:46

well,
on it's first release day on Flightsim.com

it topped the charts :dance:

AndyG · Post by **AndyG** » 18 Dec 2006, 09:48

TobyV wrote:Very obvious commonalities with some other HS types about that cockpit Apparently, Avro were originally planning to use the Trident as the basis for the Nimrod proposal but for the fact there were some part built Comet 4 'frames around and for that and a few other reasons decided to base it on the Comet instead.

Not quite as straightforward as that Toby, well that's not what it says in my copy of "Project Cancelled". HS were pushing a greatly improved Trident development, the Avro 776, which would have enabled them to compete with the 727; the 776 corrected all of the faults of the DH121, and was (on paper) a very capable aircraft. As well as a straight airline development they used it as the basis for a number of other projects, including a proposed Skybolt missile carrier (the VC10 was also put forward for that!).

A version of the 776 (the HS800), with a double-bubble fuselage similar to that used eventually for Nimrod, was the front runner for the RAF MR requirement, the main competitor being the Atlantique (albeit an Atlantique with more powerful engines and jet booster engines). Politics, needless to say, intervened as the requirement kept changing. In the meantime the Avro 776 had vanished so, when a definitive AST was issued, HS looked at the options they had, took many fo the ideas they had come up with for the HS800 onto a Comet airframe and, hey presto, the Mighty Hunter was born.

The really intriguing proposal that came from HS at one point was a MR version of the variable geometry airliner they had proposed for what became Concorde!!

AndyG