Tiger...
Moderators: Guru's, The Ministry
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JohnWillimas
- VC10
- Posts: 514
- Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 08:28
- Location: Near Daventry, UK
Rick,
I agree with your analysis on this. It's just not enough to have "pilots of the real thing" validate these models, it really needs pilots who are also experienced simmers (like Peter) who understand the limits (and possibilities) of the simulation situation to get theat tricky balance between authenticity and practicality. "Illusion" is the critical word here. Arthur C. Clarke wrote, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". The reverse is also true - a good enough illusion is indistinguishable from the technology.
That's what I guess is the holy grail for us users - a flight model that "feels" the way we think it ought to. Maybe that's why flying big iron is popular in sims - no one (except for a lucky few) have done it for real so they enjoy what they get in blissful ignorance. I guess the dissappointingthing in models like this is that it could have been so much better.
I suspect it's not going to get fixed, too.
I'm really puzzled by how complacent people are - either no one's down loading this, or they think it's OK, or they haven't worked out that they could mention what they don't like to the developers. There are hardly any comments on the Just Flight Forum.
Apart from me, only one other person has commented in their forum on anything related to the flight characteristics and one on a possible intrumentation problem. For one person the only thing wrong with it was that it didn't have a GPS!
I guess if they don't have folk telling them its a problem, they'll think its OK. I prefer the livelier forum banter here.
I never actually threw up on a flight but I did get out of a Harvard a while ago after some 'batting over Shoreham and had to ask my wife to drive home because I felt so strange! :redface:
I agree with your analysis on this. It's just not enough to have "pilots of the real thing" validate these models, it really needs pilots who are also experienced simmers (like Peter) who understand the limits (and possibilities) of the simulation situation to get theat tricky balance between authenticity and practicality. "Illusion" is the critical word here. Arthur C. Clarke wrote, "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". The reverse is also true - a good enough illusion is indistinguishable from the technology.
That's what I guess is the holy grail for us users - a flight model that "feels" the way we think it ought to. Maybe that's why flying big iron is popular in sims - no one (except for a lucky few) have done it for real so they enjoy what they get in blissful ignorance. I guess the dissappointingthing in models like this is that it could have been so much better.
I suspect it's not going to get fixed, too.
I'm really puzzled by how complacent people are - either no one's down loading this, or they think it's OK, or they haven't worked out that they could mention what they don't like to the developers. There are hardly any comments on the Just Flight Forum.
Apart from me, only one other person has commented in their forum on anything related to the flight characteristics and one on a possible intrumentation problem. For one person the only thing wrong with it was that it didn't have a GPS!
I guess if they don't have folk telling them its a problem, they'll think its OK. I prefer the livelier forum banter here.
I never actually threw up on a flight but I did get out of a Harvard a while ago after some 'batting over Shoreham and had to ask my wife to drive home because I felt so strange! :redface:
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Hot_Charlie
- Concorde
- Posts: 1018
- Joined: 30 Jul 2004, 23:51
- Location: Bomber County
A newbie here, I too bought the Tiggie ASAP, hoping for something special.
Never having flown a real one, I only had Bill Lyons' and Warwick Carter's to judge by. So all I could say is "So so". The model variants are nice - eight models, each with four pilot configurations...
...and then I looked at the paintkit and the file structure. Chaos! JF have, of needs (perhaps) made a dog's dinner of the file organisation. Unnecessary duplication of files means you end up with a 600MB black hole on your hard disc. (1.2 Gig if you install the FS9 version as well) I don't think the AH guys are too happy either. Anyway, us painters have a jigsaw puzzle on our hands now, as some models don't use the files in the paintkit, but alternate ones which you have to discover.
Each paint has to placed in two different folders, there's 32 different mdl files, 24 panel, 16 skins... fun!
I can live with things like that, though. But someone said this was accurate and validated? Count the wing ribs (as indicated by the shadows painted on the wings)... This Tiger's female! i.e. there's a rib missing - 9 instead of 10.
Fortunately I chatted with AH. Their "willing" is great and they heard my woes. The Tiger may not be perfect, but she's staying on my PC and I hope, eventually, to figure the paints out and make a few corrections with my skins - the main thing is for me to create masters of my own. Once that's done, you can expect quite a few "Eagleskinned" Tigers in circuit.
The main problem with the JF Tiger is that I have been spoiled rotten by the Digital Aviation Dornier. A lot cheaper and more "goodies", as well as a real world team of pilots who use the sim too.
Guys, this may be a forum for Classic British Planes, but take a look at the Dornier and "steal" some of the ideas those guys had in the realism and goodies department.
Never having flown a real one, I only had Bill Lyons' and Warwick Carter's to judge by. So all I could say is "So so". The model variants are nice - eight models, each with four pilot configurations...
...and then I looked at the paintkit and the file structure. Chaos! JF have, of needs (perhaps) made a dog's dinner of the file organisation. Unnecessary duplication of files means you end up with a 600MB black hole on your hard disc. (1.2 Gig if you install the FS9 version as well) I don't think the AH guys are too happy either. Anyway, us painters have a jigsaw puzzle on our hands now, as some models don't use the files in the paintkit, but alternate ones which you have to discover.
Each paint has to placed in two different folders, there's 32 different mdl files, 24 panel, 16 skins... fun!
I can live with things like that, though. But someone said this was accurate and validated? Count the wing ribs (as indicated by the shadows painted on the wings)... This Tiger's female! i.e. there's a rib missing - 9 instead of 10.
Fortunately I chatted with AH. Their "willing" is great and they heard my woes. The Tiger may not be perfect, but she's staying on my PC and I hope, eventually, to figure the paints out and make a few corrections with my skins - the main thing is for me to create masters of my own. Once that's done, you can expect quite a few "Eagleskinned" Tigers in circuit.
The main problem with the JF Tiger is that I have been spoiled rotten by the Digital Aviation Dornier. A lot cheaper and more "goodies", as well as a real world team of pilots who use the sim too.
Guys, this may be a forum for Classic British Planes, but take a look at the Dornier and "steal" some of the ideas those guys had in the realism and goodies department.
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JohnWillimas
- VC10
- Posts: 514
- Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 08:28
- Location: Near Daventry, UK
Looks like AH have completed a float and ski version of the Tiger,
http://www.theheavenlyhangar.com/READMO ... xmain.html
It should be available through Just Flight soon for folk that bought it there....
There's a few threads at Sim Outhouse.
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/s ... light=moth
No word as to whether this fixes any of the issues on the model / instrument panels etc. though.
http://www.theheavenlyhangar.com/READMO ... xmain.html
It should be available through Just Flight soon for folk that bought it there....
There's a few threads at Sim Outhouse.
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/s ... light=moth
No word as to whether this fixes any of the issues on the model / instrument panels etc. though.
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biplaneflyer
- Meteor
- Posts: 82
- Joined: 26 Feb 2005, 15:20
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JohnWillimas
- VC10
- Posts: 514
- Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 08:28
- Location: Near Daventry, UK