Classic British Flight Sim

hey this is my first post here, though I have been enjoying the planes featured here for a long time (especially DM's Jets) I have a problem being that I am a yank, my home airport is louisville staniford international and I have found that the british jets, (the 1-11 and trident in particular) have real trouble handling the heat here (today it is 33C for example)

I have pretty much given up on the trident, I think because of its more sweapt back wings and higher take off speed I either crash or overheat the engines everytime, I will try again when It is cooler....

the 1-11 500 is interesting, this plane is fun to fly and a real challenge to get airborn here at max take off weight,

the problem is that it suffers a real loss of power in our heat and humidity, for example even with water injection, I struggle to get over 90% percent power on the meter with out going into the red. this results in this small airliner taking almost the whole 13000 ft runway to get airborn, after that I struggle to maintain a 1000frm climb to 10000 at <250 knots and can barely maintain 500 fpm after that at the 300 knot recomented climb speed, is there any procedures that I can try to help this,

I know sombody that has seen a 1-11 try to take off from kstd (Metallica's tour plane they chartered one time in fact) and he said that they indead had to use up the whole runway to get airborn. he is a pilot and said if they had a engine failure duriing take off, they would have been "screwed" :shock: in his words.

thanks for any suggestions you all can provide and I hope to be able to contribute here.

Hi Bigred

this is the whole reason the 1-11 500 was never used on your side of the pond. (500 series was specially for european use).

the Trident was not used because you would not allow it into the USA in case it made the 727 look like a Turkey .(I reality it did not have the range needed for US routes as far as i can tell)

Use a 1-11 200 or 400 and you will be fine as they have lower AUW and better performance in thinner/hotter air.

Regards
Rick

Just as Rick says

And if you use the 475 you have the extra wingspan of the 500 on the short body as well as the extra power.

Garry

Thanks for the suggestion, I am downloading the 475 as I type this, another question about the 1-11, In reading the history it said that the new noise regulations in europe made the plane unusable as a airliner. I was wondering if you all know of any attempts to reengine it, since it only has podded engines, it shouldn't be too difficult, or is it more econimical to just replace them with more modern aircraft....

[edit] never mind I just read the history again and it answered my question.....

Hi Bigred

Dee Howard did a really good conversion to a couploe of Ex US Airlines 1-11 -200 series aircraft.

They fitted RR Tay engines to the airframe which made a massive difference.

Our airline industry was sadly killed By Airbus doing a "Boeing" & deciding anyone else was unfair competition so they buy a big chunk of the compeditor then run the company down & then sell it off once it has no output.

Otherwise you might have seen the 1-11 600/700 etc etc.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0621196/L/

Regards
Rick
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Hi yes Dee Howard (of TX?) did re-engine one with RR Tays and others have received Stage III compliant hush kits. The trouble is, both options are expensive, require lots of development and testing and theres not many (30 odd?) One Elevens left flying now and they're all pretty ancient, you might as well just get yourself a 146/RJ or a Fokker 70/100.

As recently as the mid 90s someone took out some options on One Elevens to be built by Romaero and powered by Tays, BAe was apparently involved in the discussions, but nothing ever came of it.

Yes, Dee is a Texan. He and Ed Swearingen (of the Fairchild Metro/Merlin fame and now the Sino-Swearingen SJ20 Very Light Jet among other projects) started the whole idea of modifying existing aircraft that had useful life left on the airframe to keep them "updated" back in the late 1940s and early 1950s.

Dee you can credit with things like -

The Quiet Wing 727; 727 with Winglets; the Howard 200, 250, 300 & awsome 500 (see Milton Shupe's FS version); wingtip tanks & thrust reversers on the Learjet; a lot of modifications to the Learjet that makes it what it is today (including the creation of the "Longhorn" Lear 55); and many other smaller modifications to aircraft to make them faster and more useful.

Dee's company used to be called "Dee Howard's Speed Shop" and many people mistook it for an automotive speed shop, but Dee specialized in making planes go fast, and he still does occasionally make some radical proposals for extremely fast Reno Racers. But his "Speed Shop" really does do cars now, so you could say it came full circle.

A clipping from a news article about Dee Howard's company (now owned by another firm) -

Dee Howard is a famous name in the aviation industry. The company was founded by an amazingly talented mechanic named, naturally, Dee Howard. Howard pioneered the conversion of former World War II aircraft into executive transports. The Howard 500 conversion of the Lockheed Lodestar is just one example; in fact, there are still a few of the type flying.

Howard made another great contribution to aviation, the development of thrust reversers for business jets, most notably those used to slow the hot-landing Learjet designed by Howard's friend Bill Lear.

Chris...et al.

The "Quiet Wing 727 and the Tay engined 727 you credit to Dee Howard
well Mr Howard just owned the company - the design work was done by 4 ex BAC Design engineers - My father was one of them - in fact it was his last but one consultation before his death..
He likened the 727 hush program to "Trying to muffle a Massey Ferguson tractor"
If my mind has not completely gone that would have been around 85 or
86 , as I had to fly out to San Antonio and drive him back to Atlanta.
If your interested his last project can be seen at most airports that entertain the G5 - its the horizontal tail surface - which is completely different to any other Gulfstream.

ATB

Leif

Rick Piper wrote:Hi Bigred

this is the whole reason the 1-11 500 was never used on your side of the pond. (500 series was specially for european use).

the Trident was not used because you would not allow it into the USA in case it made the 727 look like a Turkey .(I reality it did not have the range needed for US routes as far as i can tell)

Regards
Rick

I was thinking...................... a lame duck

LOL Having departed KLAS at +40C I can testify the 727 was a lame duck
you held your breath until you were east of Bryce Canyon - THEN you might
climb -- rather the same as the 707 on the HKNA-HECA runs - Tradewinds and Callie Cargo both opertaed 320s out of NBO - Had to wait until 0300 local to depart (The coolest part of the day - then only with 29000kgs on board and they might be at 4500 going past Mount Kenya...... :roll:

The VC10 on the other hand............Ah they dont make em like the used to
came out at almost MTOW and went skyward like a homesick angel.




Oh bugger Im in trouble now