Classic British Flight Sim

Dear Genltemen:

First off, as English is not my home language I ask you for excuses in advance for if what I write is not in a correct way.

My quiestion is if you know if all the BAC 1-11 who had water injection are identified with a "W".
I write from Buenos Aires, these planes did a big history here.
I have read - and tested with the excellent model of David Maltby - that there are problems with the temperature.
Regarding that, if our ambience temperature is in 32C in summer we can consider it a "fresh" day. Today it will be of some 34C, 36C tomorrow, and 38C on Christmas.
Austral operated here the type for 27 years. In all their fleet, this company only had two BACs identified with the 'W', both buyed secondhand.

Unfortunately, there were two forums here where reitred pilots from the company wirite and ansered questions for "fans". That sites nowadays do not exist any more.
For them the BACs is considered one of the best planes that they had and they never commented anything on problems of temperature.

Thank you very much in advance and have you a Very Happy 2014!!!!

Best regards form Munro, Buenos Aires.

Hi Munro

Welcome aboard

As far as I know, with the One-Eleven, the engines that use water injection have a DW at the end of the engine type....(Developed Wet???) ...seem to recall somethine like that.

Thank you very much for your quick answer Garry!

I need to correct a mistake not related with English language!
My name is Carlos. Munro is the city where I´m living. Sorry for that.
And my "JNT" nickname is because of LV-JNT. BAC 1-11 521FH c/n 196, build in 1969 and scrapped
in 1997 at his birthplace, Bornemouth.
Well, Austral has no "DW" airplanes in all the 18 BACs they used, the only ones with a single "W" according to my data was:

LV-LHT BAC 1-11 509EW c/n 185 first leased from British Caledonian in 1974 and buyed in 1975. (G-AWWY - "Flagship Isle of Iona").
LV-MZM BAC 1-11-509EW c/n 187 buyed in 1979 (D-AMAS - Germanair).
But for now I can´t find data over the engine type they used. I will do a research on some sites here.

Thank you very much again!

Sorry

Welcome Carlos

The Code like EW is an airframe spec code, not engine

I remember going aboard the RAE One-Eleven ZE432 an original 479FU Air Pacific machine

The plate said something like BAC One Eleven Type FU model Number 476...Air pacific

It was as if the FU was the most important bit

The first designation was the prototype 200AB followed by BUA ( 201AC). Braniff were 203AE.

It's just a two letter designation that means nothing to anyone other than BAC and any operators or supliers, that is, the designation itself tells you nothing but the model number does tell you the basic type, 200,300,400,475 or 500. The 510 (BEA) was a different machine to other 500's and indeed any other One-Eleven.

Hi Carlos

The smaller series which had water injection engines (srs 201AC, 207AJ, 211AH, the first 402AP, 407AW, 409AY, 412EB, 413FA, 414EG, 420EL, 423EQ and 432FD) used Spey 25 Mk.511-14W. The 'non-designated' engines being Spey Mk.511-14.

Garry's ref to DW applies only to the Spey 25 Mk512-14DW as far as I can make out. The 1-11 510-ED (BEA) used the Spey 25 Mk.512-14E while all other series 500's and 475's used the Spey 25 Mk512-14DW. Basically, all 500srs and 475srs came with wather injection as standard except the BEA 510ED's

I have c/n 185 listed as a 509EW and c/n as a 515FB

The W and DW designations refer to the Spey engine and not a particular airframe from what I can see. The serial letter designations are customer specific if I've read this correctly

EDIT: You jumped in agan Garry while I was fumbling with this

ATB
DaveB

Thanks Dave

I wondered why there seemed to me to be more watered engines than DW designated...but yep , nothing to do with the model code.

Oddly, in the early days the two letter was never quoted, just 201, 510, 304 etc.



Sorry if there is typos as the keyboard malfuctions alot and I have to go through and weed out

Thakn you very much again Mr. Garry and DaveB.

It´s clear now. And your explanation makes me more sense because of our climate.
DaveB, you´re correct, c/n 187 was a 515FB. I´m checked in 3w dot bac1-11jet dot co dot uk, and my data was incorrect.
Austral´s pilots union labour page points to that site on having the most accurate data on their BACs.

Now, if you let me somewhat off-topic, I write over general aspects of the BACs here.

As I said, that airplanes did history here.
What Aerolíneas Argentinas can´t did with their AVRO-748s and SE-210 Caravelles, was did by Austral.
In less that 5 years they made our luxury railway service a thing of the past, because of the BACs low operative costs (At the time).
Trips of 24 hours -or more- in a bedroom carriage was passed out.
The grew in air passenger traffic did Austral waiting for a new larger BAC model that never came.
For the same reason, ARG buyed B-722 in 1978 to add to her B732 fleet, so the Austral had no more remedy to become a launch customer of the MDD DC-9 Super 80. (Latter renamed as MD-81) ordering 5 of them.
The company needed to show something new to the public, the MD-81 was almost in drawings at that year, but MDD was quite happy to add a new customer to her list, did arrangements with Finnair and two brand new DC-9 51 was sent here on leasing.

But all this was not the end of the BAC fleet, far from that. The company decided to sell their 400s series along with their three NAMC-YS11.
New interiors for the BACs 500 was buyed from a company -that if my memmories are well- was named Hitco.
The refurbished aircrafts looked pretty good with new "bind lockers" among many other things.
So fast was that did, that in a newspaper publicty Austral showed a photo of the "New Douglas", that in fact was a refurbished One Eleven because the Douglas was not yet in the country.
One 500 was buyed used in Brazil in 1978, and two more in Germany in 1979/80. All was fitted with the new interiors.

By the early 1990, the BAC fleet needed a major revision and begun to be grounded. Technicians from British Aerospace came to the country and, in the same way they came, they returned. The, at the time owner of Austral, Spanish Iberia, found that it was more cheap to buy used DC-9 30 or 32 that to make the checs the BAC fleet needed.

This was did with serious complaints by Austral crew. The "new" airplanes were contemporary of the BACs or older.
Also they pointed that the old DC-9s are more "noisly" in the passengers cab than the BACs.
The rest of the histoy in short was the DC-9 replaced by B-732-A, an entire fleet of 20 MD 80x, and since two years ago a fleet of 22 Embraer E-190. The same as with the old DC-9 and B-732, the pilots says that the Embraers are good but they don´t like it.
They said something like "that all those are flying things". The BACs and MDs was real airplanes!

Greetings again,
Carlos.

510ED airframe was more like a hybrid between the short-bodies and the true 500s. Bit of an oddball, what with the Smiths avionics an all the other BEA messing around. Well down on MTOW as well.

BEA wanted them fitted as much like the Trident as possible

There was a seperate type rating for them. The later BA 539's were true 500's and were operated from BHX as a seperate fleet.

I think the 510 were modified by European to bring them more in line.

BEA didn't want the forward airstairs but saved no weight as they had to put concrete in the empty bay to keep the CG


Similar thing with the BEA Viscounts...they had cockpits like no other Viscounts.