Flight Sim World early access (BETA) out now

[DaveB]

I don't think everyone is being negative for the sake of it Chris. I'm sure we're all miffed as to why and how you're so darned positive about it That said, I'm glad you're happy with your lot

ATB
DaveB

[Chris Trott]

It's not that I'm "happy". I certainly hoped for more out of the box, but I'm also mitigating my opinions at this point because of 2 things -

1) I've been through enough Closed Betas, Open Betas, and Early Access games to know how hard it is to do this, especially with a team as small as DTG has. Remember that ACES at one time was nearly 100 strong. DTG's FSW team is only about 20.

2) I've had the fortune of working with the guys at A2A for 5+ years. I've gotten to know Scott pretty well and I think I have a good handle on Lewis too. That they licensed Accufeel to DTG as part of the base game says a lot to me as to where Scott and Lewis think this program is and where DTG is going. They have always been extremely reluctant to share complete code with anyone because of the amount of time put into Accusim and Accufeel and wanting to ensure that their desire for quality is met so as not to reflect poorly on A2A. If they are throwing their lot in on this, then I'm going to trust those 2 more than people on the outside reading half of a statement and making full assumptions.

My experience with the Flight! closed BETA and that some of the DTG devs were on that team too might help. Knowing what was going on in the background and how frustrated they were with where that program was going, I know they're going to push hard to get the right things in before release.

[Paul K]

I shall be meeting Lewis at Duxford today, and will interrogate him ruthlessly.

Watching the videos of FSW, I wonder if it's possible to complement the windscreen rain effects by NOT having the rain effects when the sun is shining. In FSX and P3D, it's often coming down stair rods, and there's barely a cloud in the sky. Is that fixable, I wonder ?

By heck, Mr. G. - that looks almost as good as P3Dv3 !

[DaveG]

It's alright as long as you don't look to closely. The glass is missing and so are the pilot & passengers.
I might fiddle a bit more but I think I'll have to wait for the SDK (if there is one) to do things properly.

[simondix]

Well seeing I had a few JF Points I have taken the plunge. Started downloading last night and just got to 45%.

[DaveB]

ATB
DaveB

[Chris Trott]

I shall be meeting Lewis at Duxford today, and will interrogate him ruthlessly.

Good luck. I think they're under an NDA with Dovetail as to what all is going on beyond the announcement that A2A has licensed Accufeel so I doubt they'll be talking much. Same with the ORBX guys. They can make general statements like "yes, we did license it and we plan to continue working with Dovetail," but I think that's about it right now.

Of note as well, I finally got signed up for the Dovetail forums yesterday evening and noted today a post that was reference from another site (I think AVSIM) that they do have at least 1 person working as the "third party coordinator" or something like that, so at least there's a person who's "in charge" of that stuff. Whether or not there's a policy even half way done to go with the title? Who knows. We can only hope.

[blanston12]

Finally, I think DTG was kinda forced into the "Early Access". I think with the delays they had with TSW's release (which resulted in them taking employees off the FSW team) and the backlash of the "BETA" they had (where you paid as much as $120 for a BETA access then had to pay $40 for the full game when it came out and there was no discount), they had no choice but to get some money coming in and to try and not run into the same issue again with a "beta" that didn't count towards your purchase of the full game.

I think the reason they were as chris said 'forced into the "Early Access"' is more a market positioning thing than a cashflow thing. X-Plane-11 is out and getting good reviews, 64bit P3D V4 is expected soon. If they waited too long these two products could run away with the market and the window for FSW would be closed.

As for all those who say P3D is not a commercial product I say Nonsense! P3D is definitely commercial software, its just cant be marketed as entertainment software. If LM was smart they would drop the different Academic and Professional versions and just have a personal version and 'Professional Plus' could then just be called 'Professional' and sell it on a wider market (including steam) as educational and training software.

I did notice that on the FSW terms and condition that it could not be used as 'Training' software, this is there side of the FSX split.

[Chris Trott]

As for all those who say P3D is not a commercial product I say Nonsense! P3D is definitely commercial software, its just cant be marketed as entertainment software. If LM was smart they would drop the different Academic and Professional versions and just have a personal version and 'Professional Plus' could then just be called 'Professional' and sell it on a wider market (including steam) as educational and training software.

LM would then be in material breach of contract and have to revert all of P3D to Microsoft. That's why they don't do it.

Also, no one has ever said P3D isn't a "commercial" product. It's sold on the open market, so of course it's a "commercial" product. It's just not an "entertainment" product - by contract. So they can't and won't market it to the general public as such.

I think Lockheed is more than happy where they are with the program. It's widely used as the basis for professional fixed-base simulators worldwide, and is the base for all new Lockheed aircraft simulators. They're not going to actively deny sales to anyone who wants to shell out the money for it, but at the same time, they're going to follow the letter of their contract with Microsoft for ESP and not market it beyond their allowed areas, just like DTG is doing with FSW.

[blanston12]

Also, no one has ever said P3D isn't a "commercial" product. It's sold on the open market, so of course it's a "commercial" product. It's just not an "entertainment" product - by contract. So they can't and won't market it to the general public as such.

Well not here but I have seen on other forums ppl say that P3D was not a commercial product so the only other choices were X-Plane and FSW. Now if LM's contract says they can't sell through third party sources then your right, they can't do that without violating the agreement. But I still think merging academic and professional into a single 'personal' would be a good idea for them. Far more ppl would be willing to buy at the 60$ level if they did not have to give the 'student' requirement the 'nod and wink', and LM would end up making more money over all.

But I agree LM's real game is the fixed simulator market. I just worry that since selling to individuals is not a huge moneymaker for them that they may shut it down when its no longer convenient, unless there is a big enough market behind it.