Classic British Flight Sim

Hi,

I've always had good service from 7dayshop.com

Rgds

John

Having read this thread again, I don't think that we should ignore Joe's comments.

I'm sure that we can all provide arguments about why an SLR is the way to go, but does Chris know the pros and cons?

That Kodak Z812 that Joe mentions is around £175 with 8.3 Mpixel and 12 x optical zoom. Then there is the Panasonic Lumix range that I was once tempted by. The DMC-FZ18EB-K with 8.1 Mpixel and 18x optical zoom is around £250.

Would either of those all-in-one cameras with video as well be an option?

Spanner in the works?

Of course Ian.. agree entirely ;-) There are a handful of digital camera's I'd buy for everyday use and many new ones (as in the ones you mentioned) are more than capable of taking very serious shots. The absolute one and only reason I went SLR was for airshow use and the (then) current compacts didn't really cut the mustard. Were it not for the fact that all-in-one camera's don't have the focal length I need, I'd bin the Canon tomorrow (well.. not exactly BIN it as I never get rid of any camera) ;-)

Food for thought indeed ;-)

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Firstly a review from Cnet
http://google-cnet.com.com/digital-came ... g=dffl.rev
The good: Very compact for a dSLR; speedy; Live View mode (LCD preview) operation.

The bad: Subpar autofocus, exposure, and automatic white-balance performance; some poor choices for default settings.

The bottom line: Olympus' compact dSLR for newbies, the Evolt E-410, is a decent choice if you're looking to save space in your bag, but issues with its automatic exposure and white balance make it an unsatisfactory option as a first dSLR.
....................but thats just one review

Second
I would like to add just one more tid bit, which I believe Dave has mentioned already
the final choice , ..........is yours
and I think , if I may speak for all who've added their input (very caringly I must note)
the input here has been to bring up some things we want you to mull over a bit before you plunk down your hard earned cash
be it SLR or if you find a hybrid that does both photos and movies. which will suit your needs
read read read and then make your choice, which ever, by that time . I'm sure you'll be happy with it.


I had my time with SLR and the big lenses , I did like shooting with them very much , but after time .... I was done
and you'll find many photographers that do go through periods where their stuff will set and collect dust (but not all , some just keep plunking along )
me........... I enjoy going to places with my newest choice (the Z812) and just relax enjoying the show

one of my setups an EOS 3 and a 500mm L series with 2x extender (looking a little worse for the wear)


Which I don't have anymore … to damn big and heavy and draws to much attention.


AHh ok...
I don;t want to imply I suggest the Z812 it's just the one I liked
having movie mode 1080 x 720 HD and a zoom that equals a 432mm zoom with IS or add a SCHNEIDER-KREUZNACH XENAR 1.4X Telephoto Lens = 604mm
(starting from 32mm which is one of the sacrifices ,, not very wide )
better photo quality than the Panasonic (after reading many many many reviews ..
and the sound was cut while zooming recording a movie if it did zoom while recoding at all can't remember)


all manual mode and several auto modes in between
but most important on the video side
it will zoom whilst recording and keep the sound
with few draw backs.... in very quiet environments the zoom motor can be heard, but those times for me are far and few..
and it records in MOV format so that required a program to convert to MPEG
and the battery issue
it will run on AA batteries but it will kill them like a mad terrorist with rabies (about 5 to six min)
the lithium batteries are about 10 dollars US each and last a good while
although I can't say for sure how long because I went and bought the rechargeable Lithium battery with charger (anywhere from 70.00 us to as low as 30.00
That’s one battery and one charger. this has worked well. I did two days at the Stuart Air Show with a full charge dumping each day
then going to a standard Lithium to finish up. (which my last check has plenty of charge left in it)

and there are other reasons mostly pro and a few more cons , but I shant beat this to death)

AGAIN .... just my justification for my choice

Burned out yet??

I think if you took a good census of people buying a camera you'd find most people were as well. before they made their pick
if your not .... you haven’t done your homework mate.... your about to make a very important decision , study hard.

ATB
Joe

Lots been said so far, and all it it relevent.

It might have been mentioned, but I couldn't see it, if it has then you can ignore this post.

But most of the modern DSLRS have the option to do Jpeg Fine + Raw so you can get the best of both worlds.

Certainly the Nikon D80 (Which I use) does, and from what I can remember so does the Olympus.

As for memory Cards, lots of options but really Sandisk or Lexar would be your best bet, mainly for security of images, and speed. Never had a sandisk card go down on me on a shoot, but know of other people who have used cheap cards resulting in a loss of images.

After all, you wouldn't put cheap brakes into a car, if better ones were available, so its not worth the risk with memory cards.

Missed this thread at the start... which left a lot of reading for me.

This site has already been mentioned, but it's worth mentioning again: http://www.dpreview.com Excellent for reviews (as the name suggests) and comparisons between cameras in a similar range. Well worth a good read.

I'd add more, but so much has been said, I'd probably be repeating everything!

For the record, I'm currently using a Canon EOS 400D, with 75-300mm USM III (temporary lens, hopefully).

But most of the modern DSLRS have the option to do Jpeg Fine + Raw so you can get the best of both worlds.

Well my D70s just does crappy JPG and RAW.

And having been devil's advocate earlier, I was in Nottingham yesterday (I do get out occasionally) so checked out the Lumix FZ18 in John Lewis. Very nice, lightweight and compact BUT just like my redundant ancient digital zoom camera (Olympus C4100UZ), the time from taking the photo to getting the view screen back is too long. I didn't check out the zoom and wasn't even tempted (ok it was £329).

With an SLR you can continue to follow the target and keep pressing the shutter release.

And that, quite simply, is why I bought an SLR again - action shots.

Ian

I've noticed that about 'Compacts' too Ian. Odd isn't it considering that some of these things will blast away at 4000th\sec :o

Surely you can control the jpg size on the D70?? Perhaps it's called something else.. maybe Large, Medium and small as on the Canon. I know that Fuji go for Fine/Medium/Small but the end result is the same ;-)

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Well, TBH, I should of course point out that my preference for RAW is my own personal choice - James did point out he does not use RAW - and this is reasonable - but remember James is a 'pro' and many pros do not use RAW for the processing time needed. BUT - where a pro may fire off several hundred shots on a commission, and NEED to get through them all to get the best, then of course JPEG is understandable.

The thing is of course that not everyone fires off hundreds of photos, so if you have a dozen or two it is less of an issue having to process.

But also remember that (for example) you cannot change white balance (for one thing) in JPEG images so UNLESS you set your camera up (And know precisely what you are doing) correctly, then you could have problems later on going back to stuff -so for DSLR 'Newbies' RAW - while perhaps a hassle to process protects what may be early mistakes, as you can rectify these in software (within reason).

Horses for courses of course. Someone could quite happily use JPEG forever and be perfectly content!

The point about shutter lag is another good one - different of course from shutter speed - there is virtually no 'normal' photographic situation where you would want to shoot at 1:4000/sec, unless it is for a VERY specific reason/or you have some astronomically expensive glass - which of course you will certainly not have on an all-in one!! I can't comment on many compacts, but the ones I have used have all had some degree of shutter lag, which renders them useless for anything except stationary objects, unless you are very lucky or very patient (and have the opporchancity to try again!!)

Generally with a DSLR, when you press the button, you get the shot. Instantly.
Bear in mind however if a review mentions 'sluggish' or 'slow' autofocus, then this equates to shutter lag. A DSLR set to manual focus will take the shot immediately, but on autofocus it will of course wait until it thinks it has a lock. So if it takes time, you can still have a wait before the camera fires, but it is still vastly superior to the 'compact lag'.

Hi Jim,

I hope we're not sending Chris to the gallows here :roll:

I did, of course, use the 4000th/sec more as an example rather than any rule of thumb. You'd expect any camera capable of such shutter speeds to be able to fire off a bunch of shots at 1000th/sec in short order but this doesn't appear to be the case with 'Compacts'.. for whatever reason :think:

As for shutter lag and AF.. well, this depends on how you shoot doesn't it. I rarely use (never use) 'continuous' mode prefering to keep the subject in shot.. constantly half depressing the 'shoot' button to keep the subject 'vaguely' in focus and keeping the exposure 'up to speed' then I start shooting when the time is right (as you've probably seen from the quality of some of my shots) The only lag I suffer is waiting for the buffer to clear after a particularly 'healthy' stint shooting and this, believe it or not, happens more with the Sandisk Extreme III than it does with the Ultra II card. Maybe I've got more impatient in my old age As you rightly point out.. the 'lag thing' is never an issue when taking slow moving or still shots so why compacts tend to suffer more is a mystery. :think:

Hopefully, Chris will buy a camera soon and put us all out of our mysery

ATB

DaveB :tab: