Classic British Flight Sim

I think Dave is saying that the two aircraft were designed for different roles at the outset, and cannot be compared as direct rivals.
The RAF had no great need for a high altitude escort fighter, because for 95% of ops flown in WW2 by the RAF bomber force were at night. The sole purpose of the Spit (to start with), was as a home based interceptor.

DaveB wrote:
Did we really ever want the P-51.. with or without a Merlin??

Um, yes! The P-51 only happened because of a MAP requirement; I believe North American were approached by MAP to see if they would licence build P-40s, NA insisted they could produce something better in less time than it would take to set up P-40 production lines. So without British involvement at the start the Mustang would never even have made it to the drawing board!!

AndyG

Hi Andy..

Yup.. I was aware of the P-40

Trev..
Hit the nail straight on the head. Nice to know someone understood my blurb

ATB

DaveB :tab:

calypsos wrote:I think Dave is saying that the two aircraft were designed for different roles at the outset, and cannot be compared as direct rivals.
The RAF had no great need for a high altitude escort fighter, because for 95% of ops flown in WW2 by the RAF bomber force were at night. The sole purpose of the Spit (to start with), was as a home based interceptor.

Very true what you say about the original purpose of the Spitfire. Considering that original requirement it says much that it was able to fulfil so many different roles, from photo-recce, to high altitude interceptor, to versatile fighter bomber.

Your comment about there being no need for an escort fighter, and the reason you gave, are probably more true with hindsight than at the time - realistically it was probably more due to short-sightedness on the part of the powers that be. The main reason that Bomber Command switched to night raids was because they received such a mauling early on, during daylight raids, pretty much due to lack of an effective escort. Don't forget that the RAF idea of a long range fighter at that time was the Blenheim IF and IVF.

Luckily for us the Germans had the same vision problems, so during the Battle of Britain the 109s were at the extremes of their range and the 110's were outclassed. It also meant that the Luftwaffe never really had any heavy bombers throughout the conflict - how effective would Bomber Command have been if they had been forced to stay with the Blenheim, Wellington and Whitley?

By the time the Americans entered the war they had been able to study our 'mistakes', so were able to pursue daylight operations (arguably) more effectively with large formations and a decent long range escort fighter - albeit one stemming from a British request and using a British engine!!

Any more news on the Mk VIII Ed? Also, any thoughts on adding a Mk VII to the package, as the VIII was (initially) basically a non-pressurised version of the VII?

AndyG

A very reasonable appraisal Andy

Ed keeps dropping in btw.. he's just not saying much

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Hi Dave

I am guessing Ed has changed his messenger addy as i have not seen him online for months.

it's also possible he's blocked me for picking his Brain too often :redface: (& who'd blame him)

Spit looks loveley anyway (Hint MkIX)

Regards
Rick

I think Ed keeps an eye on things here and in the Sim-shed, too. He will often answer any question that comes up.

I would think that at present, questions about this project would be of the 'I would like this, or 'I want that' vareity, just the sort that most developers (payware or freewar) dislike the most. I would think that may be the reason for a low profile.

calypsos wrote:
I would think that at present, questions about this project would be of the 'I would like this, or 'I want that' vareity, just the sort that most developers (payware or freewar) dislike the most. I would think that may be the reason for a low profile.

But I've only mentioned the Mk XII once Trev! :sad:

AndyG

AndyG wrote:

calypsos wrote: But I've only mentioned the Mk XII once Trev! :sad:
AndyG

Hate to be a pedant (they're always revolting ) - but that's twice now - or maybe three now

I believe the bomber doctrine at the start of the war - as promulgated by Trenchard in the UK , Mitchell in the US and Douhet in Italy - was that "the bomber would always get through" with only onboard armament required.

The daylight Lancaster raid against Augsburg convinced the RAF that the theory was pants, which was why they switched to night bombing.

The USAAC knew better and decided that mass daylight close formations of bombers would get through and nearly ran out of replacement crews in '43 as a result, and had to suspend unescorted raids until the escort fighters could be brought on stream. Even then initially the escorts could not go all the way to Berlin, so the Luftwaffe either waited until they headed for home or provoked them into dropping the long range tanks for a dogfight - then like wiley coyote running over a cliff it was home or bail out.

But back on topic - want one - yesterday :roll:

Hi Guys,

Just back from an enforced absence from the net - I just moved and it took a few weeks to get the net connection installed.

I'm glad to hear you're interested in the Spitfire - there are actually also some IX's in production (with a huge number of variations - you wouldn't believe how much Mk.IX Spitfires varied!), and a Mk.XI as well. The XII is an ever present temptation. We'll see!

I did actually photograph the sole surviving Mk.VII in Washington DC last year, and it's definitely an interesting aircraft. The concern I have with modelling it is I think it requires quite a few internal changes to do with the pressurisation systems (the canopy is also different, especially if the early "clamp down" hood is modelled). I already have the extended wingtips made.

Progress on projects has slowed of late, though, I'm afraid. I'm working on an FSX upgrade to the Lanc (it will be a VERY significant upgrade), but pressures at "real" work are keeping time at a premium (that's the reason you haven't seen me online lately, Rick!).