Classic British Flight Sim

Thanks guys, now I got it.

I dont wish to be a pain but

CG movement of the 1-11 was greater when wing fuel was burned
at Dan Air company policy was to fill the center and put the rest in the wing - then burn from the center until empty then burn from the wing - basic reason is that with any swept wing aircraft the CG moves forward
as you burn from the wing tanks and an aft cg is prferable for landing


Leif

Thanks for that info Leif, just goes to show you can still learn a lot through other peoples experience & knowledge.

Hi Bachian,

While I'm not disputing Leif's info.. it may have been specific to the type of 1-11's Dan Air operated hence company policy for them to operate this way. Not all operators filled the centre tank and put the remainder required into the wing tanks as the cockpit video of EAL's 500 clearly shows them flying Hurn - Turin with the centre tank empty at takeoff and 3700kg loaded into each wing

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Dave

Ever thought the Center tank could have been MEL'd?


Leif

Hi Leif,

I suppose that's possible mate. The captain doesn't actually say that the centre gauge is U/S and I honestly can't remember if he did a 'test' on it.

For those wondering what MEL is.. it's Minimum Equipment List. Each aircraft or type of aircraft will have one and it permits operations with certain bits broken or U/S That said, the Commander can still refuse to fly if he wants a particular thing repaired even if the MEL states that he can fly with it U/S

There you go mate. I know it goes against what you were used to in DanDare but the bottom line is, I have no way of confirming if the centre tank gauge is working or not. What I can tell is that 7400kg is more than I'd take in flightsim though that is without fuel for a diversion/hold e t c TBH.. I'd not want to fly with the centre gauge MEL'd if to do so would mean the aircraft being that much out of trim by using only the wing tanks but hey.. for me, it aint real

ATB

DaveB :tab:

Not really Dave

Its not just Dan Air - lets see - we did the same thing with the 727 at Cam Air, Key Air , Gulf Air Transport and Transmeridian and with the DC9/MD80
at SouthEast and Allegiant - its just the nature of center tanks and swept wings - the procedure is to empty the center tank then burn the wings - unless your using a C/T as ballast - At Dan Air it was very infrequent you saw a ramp fuel less than 8700kgs anyway.

Leif

Hi Leif,

Yep.. I'm with you all the way mate but I'm only saying what I see with my own peepers I know the outbound flight was light (payload) and having just dug the DVD out and had another look.. he seemed to carry less than 7400kg as the left tank was reading some 300kg less than the RH tank. His flight back took more fuel though the centre tank still read empty and there was still a discrepancy of 300kg between left and right tanks

Not arguing the toss or trying to reinvent the wheel.. just reporting what I see. I have another DVD as it happens with a different type of 1-11 and a different operator. Will have a look and see how they load

ATB

DaveB :tab:

No doubt that was Dan-Air company policy, but use of the centre tank was optional on all 1-11s.
BAC 1-11 sales brocure - "Due to the moderate amount of sweepback employed on the wing, special fuel management procedures are not required".
And as we know, some 1-11 200s didn't even have a centre tank - so that hopefully puts it beyond much doubt.

The only requirement on a 1-11 is to carry some fuel in the wing tanks at all times, because the engines can only take fuel from the wing tanks.
If there is fuel in the centre, it only ever tops up the wing tanks. The engines can't take direct from the centre tank, it's impossible.

Re G-AZMF flying with EAL.
As Dave says 7000kg is more than plenty for Hurn-Turin. If it was carrying anything in the centre tank, it wouldn't need 3500 kg in each wing.
Even if they took the return fuel along in the centre tank, they must have moved it all into the wings for the return trip.
The APU only takes fuel from the left side Dave, so that may be the reason for the imbalance. :think:

DM

Hi DM..

Yes indeed on your last comment

I've just had a look at another cockpit video.. this time the Nationwide 1-11 400 flying from Jo'burg to East London and he carried 4t in each wing with 1ton in the centre tank. This is what he actually loaded (using the auto load panel) and was confirmed at PFC's by the gauges.

While this flies in the face of what you have experienced Leif.. it does tend to show that not all operators conformed to the same practices as DanDare.. for whatever reason

ATB

DaveB :tab: