Classic British Flight Sim

Some FF facts,
The FF section in the Aircraft.cfg only controls bumps etc while on the GROUND and has absolutely no effect on Flight FF.

No amount of fiddling with ANYTHING in Aircraft.cfg will make any difference to Flight FF the varying suggestions I have seen include reducing elevator area, messing with MOI settings, eventualy rendering the model unflyable, removing the FF section completely ( the nett result for that move is to still have FF on the ground but to violent to use)

Since the sole place Flight FF is controlled from is in the airfile and none of it gets written to the Aircraft.cfg, the fixing of it requires a airfile editor.

the most unfortunate fact is that it seems all the avocates of switching off FF or offering advice on reducing this that or the other in Aircraft.cfg do not even have a FF stick

When DG's Hunter was first released I set about looking how to fix the Flutter and retain FF and after a few days of experimenting and with a lot of trial and error came up with the answer.

The link I posted for dswanson is from Dec 2005 and there have been various posts etc on the subject here.

The trouble is Rich that some of us believe that FF is a load of humbug and NO real stick in a real aeroplane EVER experiences that rubbish that is fed into your Force Feedback sticks. MS dumped it because it was just a stupid gimmick. Modern real sticks on hydraulic control systems have spring centering much like our FS joysticks and that is what you feel. The spring force can be modified with Q feel but merely a strengthening of the srping tension. Bumps in the ground, firing cannons etc feed absolutely nothing to the stick. You could probably have your wing shot off without any feedback coming to the stick.

I remove any FF paras when modding any flight dynamics.

the most unfortunate fact is that it seems all the avocates of switching off FF or offering advice on reducing this that or the other in Aircraft.cfg do not even have a FF stick

Well I had one,and it's still in store if anybody wants it, but having tried all the suggested incantations when FS2004 first appeared I assumed that it was not fixable.

Even M$ suggest disabling the FF effect in FS2004:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315926

Rich, for me you were a year too late finding the solution - never mind I've moved on to more expensive gear for my Christmas present.

Ian

Merry Christmas Rich, well at least I think it is. Good to see someone having the patience and technical skill to work out a solution to this, better still to see you share it.

What a shame you have to refer to fellow sim enthusiasts as ample rectums.

Brian thanks for your input, I am affraid this is where my interest in assisting with FF fixes ends, everyone to his own thoughts and beliefs.

Humbug ? yes of course, it is Christmas after all

I posted this In July this year it is a copy off my hard disk since I can not turn it up with search, some of you may remember it, Ian I have seen a number of claims for Sidewinder 1 working in Fs 9 and have no reason to doubt them.


Posted in July 2006

Hi All, I have reinstalled The JP out of the box as it were, while the ff centralizing is a bit strong and gives the odd kick it is easily controlled.
I am looking at reducing the centralizing force in the JP which has exactly the same settings as the Meteor but seems much stronger in the JP.

One thing about the Sidewinder1 is Microslop says it is incompatable with XP and will not work in XP so either James is lucky or MS were telling porkies to get people to change to the new USB version. It would be interesting to know if anyone else has the old Sidewinder working in XP

I have spent a lot of time on FF with trial and error research into levator/aileron flutter and found the cure for it which works very well.

As Kevin pointed out the FF settings are in the airfile not aircraft.cfg, the FF entries in aircraft.cfg only applies to ground effect while taxying, take off run and landing etc.
There is absolutly nothing in aircraft.cfg that you can change to alter flight FF. On the old Mike Stone forum people used to ramble on about reducing elevator/aileron sizes but this will leave you with at best a lousy flight model at worst a unflyable model. The only place you can fix FF is in the airfile section 320.

Some have removed section 320 from the airfile as a fix and while it stops the fluttering you completly lose flight FF, one of the reasons you bought a expensive stick in the first place.

I worked on curing the flutter in section 320 and found I could fix it in any model and have been very successful with it DG's Hunter being one to benefit on my setup at least, one thing thought by some is that FF will affect flight characteristics, not so it has no affect.

I think Kevin will agree as will many others that the cure that I found realy does what it says on the box

http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=kb;e ... sid=global

Added to this since all posts from yesterday dissapeared.

I have modified the airfile FF section of both the JP and Meteor by Rick Piper to have less back pressure when the stick tries to centralize, this in turn also much reduces the kickbacks.

If anyone wants to try them PM me with your email address. Only good for FF users nothing else has been changed so if you do'nt have FF there is no point in getting it

a reply posted in SOH by one of the first testers who recieved my fixed Hunter Airfile via PM.

Nick Churchill I believe and Cees Donker also had the early fix

FF for me is not about gimmicks, as far as I am concerned FF gives dynamic stick centering as a spring stick but with varying amounts of back pressure, without FF settings in the airfile or with it switched off the sidwinder feels like a stick of celery in a cup of water no feel whatsoever.

It is just a dynamic spring stick


12th November, 22:13 #6
viking3

Sparkfarmer




Join Date: Jun 2005
Age: 43
Posts: 115 Test Flight

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Just flew for 20 mins in the Hunter with the new airfile. Got up to 725 kts in a dive with no elevator flutter and no pushover into the ground as before. I did not notice any adverse effects to the rest of the flight characteristics.
This makes me very happy as I love the Hunter but did not enjoy flying it with no feedback. I find I get disoriented very fast if I don't have the sensation of physical vibration.
Thanks very much Rich.
Regards, Rob
__________________
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Disappearing posts, Yesterday before departing for the traditional familly christmas I posted this link to the original post I made in July, since refound via search which I posted pre departure only to find it has disappeared again.

I previewed it prior to posting and again after posting to ensure the link worked but on return could find no trace of it.
The same procedure will again be carried out and hopefully the post will appear.
If there is something that offends someone in the post by all means delete it but please have the decency to explain the problem.


http://www.cbfsim.org/cbfsimv5/cbfsbb/v ... e+feedback

Checked the link Rich and it appears fine

ATB

DaveB :tab:

DaveB, Sorry the whole post had dissapeared the link is ok I checked in preview and after posting and both work fine. I am getting PEED of with this FF bit Wish I had never found the fix however I will continue for my own use GIMMICK or not