It may surprise you, but my throttle in cruise is 81% :shock: The only time 100% is used is at takeoff and once I reach 2000ft its back to 85 or so.
So did you run out of fuel or did you have too much left?
FSNav aircraft settings request - Trident 2 and 3
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DaveB
- The Ministry
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Hi DM 
Your way of doing things is definately more 'realistic' by the sound of it David. I have become so reliant on seeing the FSNav screen now that I find it difficult to fly without it!!
Yup.. you're right about FSN having a trial version.. something I'd forgotten about :shock: You are restricted to one area I think and it may only give you a limited amount of time on each flight. Been a long time since I bought it unfortunately.
It WILL do everything for you if you let it DM but the beauty is that you don't have to let it. There are 2 different choices of AP control, both of which operate in an identical fashion but which have a selection of components that can easily be changed to give you what you want. You can for example use say FM1 and make all the settings for height, speed e t c manual so that when you hit the AP button (if you choose to use it) FSNav will only act on your commands. This is.. if you want to use the FSN AP function
The button next to AP is Fly Flightplan and it is this that locks your AP to the route you have planned. With this NOT depressed, you will be going exactly where YOU put the aircraft but will have a visual representation of your progress in the FSN window. Having said that, this is not strictly true as it is quite possible to make all of the FSN AP functions MANUAL so you CAN use fly flightplan and AP combined but still fly the AP manually if you see what I mean. Doing it this way, you get a nice little 'ding' when you hit a waypoint. Sounds corny but that little 'ding' has woken me up on more than one occassion when I've been flying late at night and dropped off at the stick!! One small point. Although the FSN screen can be adjusted for size by simply moving the window size points.. it can still take up rather more of your available screen than you might wish. You can zoom in or out to make the viewing area suit the size of the window but in all honesty, it is best on another (2nd) monitor (which is the way I use it). The window is not docked to any particular position so if you have a second monitor, you simply drag it over. When it opens (F9 key though this can be changed), it will open on your primary monitor for programming but will jump over to your second monitor after the 'acorn' symbol has been hit on the top row of buttons
Compared to doing it your way, it does seem like a considerable amount of 'hand holding' but the beauty is that you do not have to let it operate that way Anything at all you're unsure of, just let me know mate and I'll do my best to answer your question
Pete.. I feel obliged to always mention FSBuild.. even though I don't have it, as I know it works and it's the only worthy alternative (for me anyway) to FSN
ATB
DaveB :tab:
Your way of doing things is definately more 'realistic' by the sound of it David. I have become so reliant on seeing the FSNav screen now that I find it difficult to fly without it!!
Yup.. you're right about FSN having a trial version.. something I'd forgotten about :shock: You are restricted to one area I think and it may only give you a limited amount of time on each flight. Been a long time since I bought it unfortunately.
It WILL do everything for you if you let it DM but the beauty is that you don't have to let it. There are 2 different choices of AP control, both of which operate in an identical fashion but which have a selection of components that can easily be changed to give you what you want. You can for example use say FM1 and make all the settings for height, speed e t c manual so that when you hit the AP button (if you choose to use it) FSNav will only act on your commands. This is.. if you want to use the FSN AP function
The button next to AP is Fly Flightplan and it is this that locks your AP to the route you have planned. With this NOT depressed, you will be going exactly where YOU put the aircraft but will have a visual representation of your progress in the FSN window. Having said that, this is not strictly true as it is quite possible to make all of the FSN AP functions MANUAL so you CAN use fly flightplan and AP combined but still fly the AP manually if you see what I mean. Doing it this way, you get a nice little 'ding' when you hit a waypoint. Sounds corny but that little 'ding' has woken me up on more than one occassion when I've been flying late at night and dropped off at the stick!! One small point. Although the FSN screen can be adjusted for size by simply moving the window size points.. it can still take up rather more of your available screen than you might wish. You can zoom in or out to make the viewing area suit the size of the window but in all honesty, it is best on another (2nd) monitor (which is the way I use it). The window is not docked to any particular position so if you have a second monitor, you simply drag it over. When it opens (F9 key though this can be changed), it will open on your primary monitor for programming but will jump over to your second monitor after the 'acorn' symbol has been hit on the top row of buttons
Compared to doing it your way, it does seem like a considerable amount of 'hand holding' but the beauty is that you do not have to let it operate that way
Anything at all you're unsure of, just let me know mate and I'll do my best to answer your question Pete.. I feel obliged to always mention FSBuild.. even though I don't have it, as I know it works and it's the only worthy alternative (for me anyway) to FSN
ATB
DaveB :tab:
Old sailors never die.. they just smell that way!
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DaveB
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Hi Ben,
No.. I didn't run out of fuel.. far from it. Off your figures, I landed with bang on what FSN had estimated plus the fuel that was already onboard when I picked her up plus the extra 2000kg :shock: :think: Do you use the default model weight?? Reason I ask is there is no way on god's earth will she maintain 2500fpm at anything approaching the advertised climb speed (under FSN control). On more than one occassion, I feared she may go into a stall due to the low IAS but thankfully, full throttle and FSN tweaking down the V/S to cope kept me out of trouble At my takeoff weight (the default model plus FOB (2952kg) plus estimated fuel (4740kg) plus the 2000kg extra), I dare not throttle back until actually in the cruise when the speed eventually crept up to 320/M.86. I didn't use the 4th engine which may have contributed to her slightly overweight feel but as a) LHR have long enough runways and b) I couldn't remember how to use it.. I thought it best to leave well alone 
Block for the flight was 4367kg btw so a guestimate of 4740 is as near as damn it, bang on Of course, the extra fuel is not wasted as this will be used for the return I think I'll try a much reduced RoC for the return (and no 4th engine!) to try and achieve a greater overall flight speed which may in turn, save a couple of bob on gas. Regardless.. few flights have left me with a smile on my face as that one did and I thoroughly enjoyed every second of it. What a beautiful package the Trident3 is. I commend it to the house
ATB
DaveB :tab:
No.. I didn't run out of fuel.. far from it. Off your figures, I landed with bang on what FSN had estimated plus the fuel that was already onboard when I picked her up plus the extra 2000kg :shock: :think: Do you use the default model weight?? Reason I ask is there is no way on god's earth will she maintain 2500fpm at anything approaching the advertised climb speed (under FSN control). On more than one occassion, I feared she may go into a stall due to the low IAS but thankfully, full throttle and FSN tweaking down the V/S to cope kept me out of trouble
At my takeoff weight (the default model plus FOB (2952kg) plus estimated fuel (4740kg) plus the 2000kg extra), I dare not throttle back until actually in the cruise when the speed eventually crept up to 320/M.86. I didn't use the 4th engine which may have contributed to her slightly overweight feel but as a) LHR have long enough runways and b) I couldn't remember how to use it.. I thought it best to leave well alone Block for the flight was 4367kg btw so a guestimate of 4740 is as near as damn it, bang on
Of course, the extra fuel is not wasted as this will be used for the return I think I'll try a much reduced RoC for the return (and no 4th engine!) to try and achieve a greater overall flight speed which may in turn, save a couple of bob on gas. Regardless.. few flights have left me with a smile on my face as that one did and I thoroughly enjoyed every second of it. What a beautiful package the Trident3 is. I commend it to the house ATB
DaveB :tab:
Old sailors never die.. they just smell that way!
Thanks Dave.
I'll hopefully be giving it a go in a while.
Got it installed & have run the database create.
Ben, I'd guess you're reading those %RPMs off the thrust index. ?
They are misleading.
The thrust index reading is only relevant during takeoff. It's giving a % of required takeoff thrust for the index number that is currently dialled in (yellow numbers).
% RPM figures are only given on the tooltip of the RPM gauges in the Trident model.
DM
I'll hopefully be giving it a go in a while.
Got it installed & have run the database create.
Ben, I'd guess you're reading those %RPMs off the thrust index. ?
They are misleading.
The thrust index reading is only relevant during takeoff. It's giving a % of required takeoff thrust for the index number that is currently dialled in (yellow numbers).
% RPM figures are only given on the tooltip of the RPM gauges in the Trident model.
DM
I'd not expect 2500 fpm in a Trident. Maybe a shorter route when it doesn't take much fuel.
I don't pay much attention to fpm though.
Usually with the va I'll set IAS mode for 235kt until FL100, (or auto throttle if it's bumpy)
Then well past FL100, dial it up to 290kt IAS mode, taking what ever fpm I get.
All the time just keeping 11800 ish (93%) on the RPMs. Or if it's hot just aim to keep EGT out of the yellow.
Still CBFS isn't BEA is it Ben. vroom vroom.
DM
I don't pay much attention to fpm though.
Usually with the va I'll set IAS mode for 235kt until FL100, (or auto throttle if it's bumpy)
Then well past FL100, dial it up to 290kt IAS mode, taking what ever fpm I get.
All the time just keeping 11800 ish (93%) on the RPMs. Or if it's hot just aim to keep EGT out of the yellow.
Still CBFS isn't BEA is it Ben. vroom vroom.
DM
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DaveB
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Indeedie.. the % tooltip is very misleading (or can be when you've had a beer or two.. not suggesting that you had Ben, I definately had)
Well.. my return from Frankfurterville was a little more comfortable.. a little further (I plonked a STAR in before LHR) and I used less fuel in the process. Cap all that off with a -7fpm manual landing and boy.. the world feels great
To get the 'Trident Experience' DM (using FSN).. I'd make one of it's FMC's ALL MANUAL so that when you hit the AP button, you still have total control over your destiny. I have to admit I miss flying the old girl in the correct fashion (now I'm not doing it that way.. idle git). Should you feel the urge, you can change FMC's at any stage in the proceedings (swap between setup 1 and setup 2) but I wouldn't bother. It IS handy having a couple of variations on a theme as not all aircraft fly the same. Nothing I fly (with the exception of the Trident3) has autothrottle so I'm still not using it but that is my choice
OK.. I'm enjoying this so much I've already booked another one and should time be kind.. I'll make the return before this evening too
The idea being that I'll eventually wean (ween..wene??) myself OFF using the FSN AP and back on to the Trident fit.. in the fullness of time ATB
DaveB :tab:
Old sailors never die.. they just smell that way!
Your spot on Guys, 2500 climb is only on short shuttle flights. Example being en route to malta last night the airspeed hit 193 before she started to level out. My setting for climb on the T3 is a more moddest 1800. If I'm doing a longish run, I usually fly her manually until I reach cruise alt, and then again below 20000 (to avoid any funnies with speeding in the pit lane ) Landings are about 50% manual 50% Triplex... which is brilliant. Been doing it so long I've forgotten how autoland works in the 1-11 and VC10
) Landings are about 50% manual 50% Triplex... which is brilliant. Been doing it so long I've forgotten how autoland works in the 1-11 and VC10 Ben.
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DaveB
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NOW he tell's us!!
No probs with 2000fpm mate though 1800 would probably give a reasonable increase in speed
At ToD, I throttle her back to about 10500 rpm and let the speed decay nicely. By FL120/FL130, she's at around 260kias so a gentle ease back gets her to 245 at FL100.Still no 4th engine on today's flights. I'll try that when I'm old enough!!
ATB
DaveB :tab:
Old sailors never die.. they just smell that way!
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RAF_Quantum
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Hi DM,
I've got FSNav too and use it mostly for planning purposes and as a 'moving map'. It's also very good for planning descents as you get a tooltip when you hover your mouse over any navaid/airport etc which gives you a 'time to fly'. I usually wait until half of my flight level in minutes until ETA at destination and start a descent at 2000fpm usually with power fully retarded. Winding in a target altitude of 3000ft above airfield elevation on the autopilot then gives me an arrow on the FSN map which showms me at what point I will arrive at that altitude at the current descent rate. I then adjust descent rate until the arrow is a bit beyond my dest to allow for reduction in airspeed as I descend to FL100. It took me ages to figure out what that arrow was trying to tell me
I never use FSNav to 'fly the plan' .
Rgds
John
I've got FSNav too and use it mostly for planning purposes and as a 'moving map'. It's also very good for planning descents as you get a tooltip when you hover your mouse over any navaid/airport etc which gives you a 'time to fly'. I usually wait until half of my flight level in minutes until ETA at destination and start a descent at 2000fpm usually with power fully retarded. Winding in a target altitude of 3000ft above airfield elevation on the autopilot then gives me an arrow on the FSN map which showms me at what point I will arrive at that altitude at the current descent rate. I then adjust descent rate until the arrow is a bit beyond my dest to allow for reduction in airspeed as I descend to FL100. It took me ages to figure out what that arrow was trying to tell me
I never use FSNav to 'fly the plan' .Rgds
John
Re: FSNav aircraft settings request - Trident 2 and 3
Hi Dave,DaveB wrote:Should anyone be interested.. I can post my FSNav aircraft settings here but be warned.. there is only one jet amongst them.. the Comet4B. Most of you will already have worked out a satisfactory set of figures but there will be other folk who are considering an aircraft and don't want to go through the hours of adjusting to get a decent figure
My current type ratings are..
Dh89 Rapide
Dh104 Dove
DC3
Vickers Viking
Airspeed Ambassador
Vickers Viscount
Vickers Vanguard
HS 748
Dh106 Comet4B
Oh.. and the Tridents now!!
ATB
DaveB :tab:
I'd be interested in your figures if you can spare the time to share them
Rgds,
Colin
Rgds,
Colin
Gentleman (n.) Someone who knows how to play the bagpipes, but doesn't
Colin
Gentleman (n.) Someone who knows how to play the bagpipes, but doesn't