Vulcan to the sky

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TobyV
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Post by TobyV »

I got attack over on keypublishing for daring to suggest that Sharkey Ward had a few valid points in his book. They even went as far as to suggest even other people in the RN disagree with him :dunno:

I've read the book and whilst there are a couple of bits that sound a little far fetched and he does seem to be fighting one battle against the Argies and one against his seniors, I cant disagree with a lot of it.

[can_of_worms]Black Buck was a huge effort to achieve not an awful lot, and yes whilst it demonstrated they could in theory bomb Buenos Aires, I would have thought that SAMs or even the Argie Air Force would probably have knocked down a Vulcan or two in reality if they'd tried it, which might have been more of a PR goal for them than for us.

Hot_Charlie
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Post by Hot_Charlie »

chockhead819 wrote: I would also suggest reading Sharkey Wards book & how the RAF caused the task force to leave itself wide open to attack because the RAF wanted a fire free zone!
Erm, I have...



...and Sharkey Ward has his own views on the RAF.

War is about taking calculated risks you know. Black Buck was one of them, and you can deny its success as much as you like. The bottom line was it worked. Sorry...
I would have thought that SAMs or even the Argie Air Force would probably have knocked down a Vulcan
To do that I assume the SAMs and Mirages would need to be in quite close proximity to Beunos Aires (I hate spelling that)?
and forced Argentine air defence assets north to defend the capital. Exactly the point of the raid!
Charlie

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TobyV
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Post by TobyV »

Hot_Charlie wrote:
TobyV wrote: I would have thought that SAMs or even the Argie Air Force would probably have knocked down a Vulcan
To do that I assume the SAMs and Mirages would need to be in quite close proximity to Beunos Aires (I hate spelling that)?
SAMs (some of them at least) are mobile and I suppose at a time when the capital of a country is threatened I would expect they would risk bringing down an aircraft over it. Remember not so long ago, Tonka F.3s patrolled the skies over London incase Mr Bin Liner had any ideas about tying a 9/11 at Docklands.

Wasnt one of the main Argie bases pretty close to Buenos Aires anyway? The one Maggie planned to drop the SAS into to destroy the Excoet stocks :dunno:

andy

Post by andy »

Would've been easier to have put them on a cross channel ferry........ :smile: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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DaveB
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Post by DaveB »

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Ah.. history. Don't ya just love it :wink:

Toby.. the SAS were dropped in a number of locations and did the necessary :wink:

SAM's..
As far as 'down south' was concerned, the major SAM's used by the 'aggressors' were a 'land based' version of the RN's old Sea Cat system.. whites of the eyes stuff and wire guided. I'm not saying they didn't have other stuff, it's just that they are not particularly effective against a target flying as high as the Vulcan's did :wink: The most deadly as far as our forces were concerned was the old tried and trusted AAA, pretty ineffectual against high flying targets but not so for low level attacks.

One major problem with the aforementioned 'fire free zone' was that it was not only the RAF (and who could blame 'em really) but also the design of the RN's missile systems. They are so designed as to cause their own 'no fire' zones.. for example, if and when a target moves into an area occupied by a friendly force. It sounds pretty rediculous but there have to be arc's where the systems will not operate otherwise it is possible for a ship to blow it's own mast off.. or worse!!

I've not read Sharkey's book but I've heard before that much (some) could be considered inaccurate. I suppose it all depends on where you are and what you're seeing so I'd neither discredit it off hand or read it word for word as verbatim :wink:

ATB

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chockhead819
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Post by chockhead819 »

I was on Hermes & after reading the book I was glad about it.
No one slept below the water line on hermes, everything stowed away & we did "hot bunking". You have a bit of a comfort zone knowing you were on a ship built to ww2 standards rather than the "tinnie Invincible" which i served on later in my time, i couldnt believe the amount of formica in the messdecks.

andy

Post by andy »

:welldone: :welldone: :welldone: :partyman: :smile:

chockhead819
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Post by chockhead819 »

FOOD FIGHT :dance:

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Post by Hot_Charlie »

Tonks wrote:A few years ago I went to a lecture in the Falklands by the then Curator of the local museum. He spoke about the night of the first Black Buck and told of the effect it had on the locals and the Argentines. The locals knew the Task Force was real and their moral increased massively... the Argentines, particularly the rankers, shat themselves. If for nothing more, they were a great success...

Tonks :cool:
Indeed. Reading XM607 (good book - got through it in two days, albeit frustratingly as I bought it to last for a week on holiday!) and there are some interesting descriptions of Argentine reaction to the first raid (from the civilians in Port Stanley) - in particularly at Stanley airfield - and some exceedingly thorough research into the entire circumstances of the raid (BB1) itself.

Martin Withers - now he'd be a good chap to have a lecture from...
Charlie

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Post by Hot_Charlie »

Oh well, no one else has posted this. Been about for a few hours now...

Very sad too hear...
Dear Members,

1st August, 2006.

This is not an easy letter to write, but I have to inform you, on behalf of the Club Committee, that the project to restore our beloved aircraft, Avro Vulcan XH558, to flying condition, is perilously close to having to be abandoned. This is purely because of lack of finance; nothing else.

You will know that the aircraft went into the hangar at Bruntingthorpe in October, 1999 in the ownership of the Walton Family Company, and considerable numbers of you who were members of the Club from its early days gave or pledged money very generously to finance its stripping and detailed inspection so as to ensure that it was in good condition and capable of being made to fly once again. Dr Robert Pleming came on the scene at this stage and became the guiding light behind the work to convince the Civil Aviation Authority, British Aerospace (as it then was), Rolls Royce, and the original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) that the project was feasible and should be supported. He also created and submitted the first application to the Heritage Lottery Fund, which, as you know, was rejected. The HLF then assisted Dr Pleming with a second application, which was successful, and £2.7m was granted, this being 66.66% of £4,1m, the other 33.33%, £1,3m, being the matching funding that the HLF required be raised from other sources. You will also realise that a substantial flow of finance, quite apart from the £1,367,000, has always been required, for the HLF have never been able to fund any of the cost of the fund raising campaign itself, nor any salaries or other costs that existed prior to the application being made. This, of course, includes the salary costs of Dr Pleming and the part time staff down in Dorset.

You will also know that it has always been the case that one or more major corporate or private sponsors have been required, for the fund raising capabilities of the Club members and of Felicity’s ‘Friends’ have never been enough to completely fund the project, even with the HLF funding and the free work of the OEMs in refurbishing their components. Even so, we have all done incredibly well, the ‘Buy Time’ initiative producing over £40,000, which was absolutely magnificent. Buy time, though, was all it could do, and did. That sum, though, is small compared with the £1,200,000 still needed to complete the aircraft’s restoration, its ground tests, and its air tests, so that it could be handed back to the Trust sometime in the spring of 2007. Time delays early on, a limitation in what the HLF could provide, and considerable cost over-runs have all contributed to what seems to be a never reducing sum being needed.

I can assure you that behind the scenes discussions that would secure the finance and therefore allow the restoration to continue, are taking place at a very high level, but I have to say that there is no certainty of success. If a major sponsor is not found, then very, very sadly, and with great reluctance, the Trustees have decided that the project will have to cease on 31st August, 2006, as they cannot legally continue beyond that date.

Your committee have met and are determined the story will not end here and we will contact you all in the next few days with plans for the Club can save the Earth’s only flyable Vulcan.


Your Committee
Charlie

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