Classic British Flight Sim

Andyg, yes i see what you mean, bit like what was said about the su-24 by ito aswell i spose??? But isnt the fact that they have minor problems with their models just the same as any business will have with a product??? the companies i work for both have the same with some or most new products... Even after extensive testing we still have cosumers asking if this and that is right or saying this is wrong etc...

Sadly yes....Its the same with any job....I could work on a patient one day and all is ok and the next day the patient sees it as i am doing wrong....thats life and i think we all know it....

Tony

BTW, I'm pretty sure that AlphaSim isn't the full-time job for most of the team, it's a side-job just like designing is a hobby for others. Yes, because they ask for payment they are open to complaints more than freeware guys are, but at the same time, since it isn't their full-time job, should we not cut them at least a little slack on some of these items especially since they've proven time-and-time again that they're more than willing to fix problems if they can? Several of their designers have quit and thus those models can't be fixed, but at the same time, I think when you look through their forums, you'll find that most of those models are being picked up and rebuilt from scratch by other members, so I think that of all the design groups, AlphaSim is one of the few who deserves a bit of consideration before we go off about how they must be blind to have missed this or that on an aircraft.

Sorry whether it's a full time or part time job payment is required and fixes/patches should not be required

Not my forum, or my back yard, so l'll tread real careful . l'll treat this as two parts.

What was said here was in impartial reality little better than what was said over there....and l posted that over there as well, to define that a little better l'm talking about the back and forth when it kicked off, not the source or root issues, just the general 'airing' of peoples views.

When the Alphasim forums were first opened l was moderator numero uno, l twisted Phils arm a long time to get the forums as doing our business on other sites wasnt good cricket. Back then it was forbidden, or just considered bad sport to mouth off other forums, payware or freeware concerns, you just turned the other cheek and got on with it. Like the recent CBFS spat there were spats before, l will say this though, most was bourne out by the fans of each club and rarely by the site staff themselves, bit like football hooligism really.

One thing l did learn very quickly is that people will have there voice, you cannot supress it, if you do it will pop up elsewhere and usually much nastier and bite you harder, threads must be allowed to run there course, no matter how unpallettable that looked or read, then when things calmed down they were locked and eventually deleted a week later.

I did think Gerrys locking of the recent one was perhaps a little too soon, lots of people had lots to say, and on hind sight it appears l was right ( and that gives me no comfort what so ever ), as we now have another thread going the same way...because not all the people have said all they want to.

As moderators it is very hard to know what to do and how far to let it run, you can either say, nope, nil, zippo and lock it after the 2nd or third post and lock it down, or you can let it run and run the risk of critism by the other parties, or run the risk of the other parties doing the exact same in return and then theres a big war of words.

Every person who posted here and there is to blame for the situation ( yes even I was and l readily admit it ), dont sit back and scoff and say l wasnt to blame, you were, if you hadnt posted then there would be nothing to read and thus no problem ( be assured l'm talking about the spat, not the price, or quality control or sales, just the spat ).

There have been outbursts from people that should really have been left on the cutting room floor, l've done it in the past...though its never been towards another developer, free or pay and l'm sure we all have to some degree as well. Outbursts are not a good sign, rather than hammer them for doing so it might be a good idea to turn that back on its self and ask yourself why someone would do that, I lost my mother earlier in the year and tried hard not to let it affect my forum persona, most people probably saw right through it...but had the good grace to give me a wide berth , we're all human and generaly we dont want to upset people if we can help it.

So chaps, critism is fine, comments are fine, but remember others may not read what you wrote in the style you ment and thus some replies that come back may not be what you expected, and l fully expect that from the above but l feel that the clientel here can sort the wheat from the chaff and see what is really what.

Thank you for reading my views on the situation.

Kindest

Michael

Chris Trott wrote:since it isn't their full-time job, should we not cut them at least a little slack on some of these items especially since they've proven time-and-time again that they're more than willing to fix problems if they can?

I would have thought the total opposite. Surely if you're designing aircraft 'on the side', so to speak, you'd be doing it for the love of creating aircraft for Flight Sim, and not be so bothered about generating sales? I don't get why you'd need to bang on about commericial viability if it wasn't what's providing your main source of income, other than the fact that you were just in it for the money - I'm NOT saying the AlphaSim guys are.

Fair enough, if there are one or two (or more) AlphaSim members who live off income generated by AlphaSim (and I mean live off), it's understandable.

Ok, the second part.

Alphasim hat on

First off Scimitar. I have been chatting with Dano on the Scimitar and we have fixed the nose wheel and wing fold etc, it took two days of solid back and forth to find the root cause of the compile errors and it turned out to be one faulty file on one PC....which had never reared its head before, hand on heart some assumptions were made that if it compiles here fine then it'll compile fine elsewhere, those assumptions have been nullified and steps taken to stop them in the future, sadly the paying public paid the price, l can only apologise for there misfortunes. When Dan sorts the errant file then l'm sure the fixes will be posted.

Alphasim hat off

Second, quality, this actually hasnt changed, really it hasnt, its got better, honestly it has, look at some models a year ago and you'll see that it has, mistakes, these were always there, some not so obvious and some just down right stupid, theres no excuse and l wont defend them, they are mistakes and should have been spotted and sorted, they werent and we had to deal with them. So what has changed ?, price and expectations, both of these have gone up, problem is people see price rises as better models, I ask you this, when petrol goes up, do you expect better petrol ?, nahh not a bit of it, same petrol as yesterday, just cost a bit more.

Some of the price hikes have been due to general higher price of living, some due ot other factors.

That leaves expectations, is the price being charged value for money ?, thats very subjective and personal, some think it is, some clearly think it is not, every one is entitled to there view, l cant or wont even beging to get into discussions on that score LOL.

So going by the above, the root cause of all these problems and issues is expectations, people expect more, demand more and generally feel there not getting there moneys worth, theres no complex issue here, just value for money .

Regarding the UK and US market, sorry but some comments above have been taken out of context, embelished and re written to suit an argument, thats not really fair. The US obviously think there getting value for money, probably becuase there actually cheaper in real terms than they are to UK customers ?, exchange rates ?, free expendable cash ?.

Sales of UK stuff, doesnt happen, what ever the cost or the quality then l dont think it would ever even break even, its a sad fact of lfe, UK stuff is a niche within a niche, even if you sold for £10 a model....it wouldnt sell twice as many thats for sure...you still would not generate enough sales to warrent serious business considerations. UK models have lived off the back of US stuff for years now, thats all there is to it l'm afraid to say.

Hope some of that explains things a little better, no wish to upset anyone so pelase take it in the manner is was written, constructive dialog.

Best

Michael

Two people live off ALphasim money, they also make the business decisions so if UK stuff doesnt get them a return then they dont get built or sold, the rest build for pleasure and small income and will probably still build UK stuff and ship elsewhere.

Best

Michael

Tweek wrote:

Chris Trott wrote:since it isn't their full-time job, should we not cut them at least a little slack on some of these items especially since they've proven time-and-time again that they're more than willing to fix problems if they can?

I would have thought the total opposite. Surely if you're designing aircraft 'on the side', so to speak, you'd be doing it for the love of creating aircraft for Flight Sim, and not be so bothered about generating sales? I don't get why you'd need to bang on about commericial viability if it wasn't what's providing your main source of income, other than the fact that you were just in it for the money - I'm NOT saying the AlphaSim guys are.

Fair enough, if there are one or two (or more) AlphaSim members who live off income generated by AlphaSim (and I mean live off), it's understandable.

Thanks for your input again Michael, a fair synopsys I'd say.

One thing which i have been thinking since this has all been going on is the part where AS say the UK market isnt producing the good side of AS sales....now....lets think clearly on this one. Surely sitting back and thinking in a clear mind. Why is this happening? What is it that the UK market is not good for AS and has never been. Wouldnt it be down to the type of models AS have produced for the UK market. Have AS produced models which people will just not purchase due to the type of models. Yes i know every business cannot cater for 100% pure happiness in people but they can make a effort to help the cutomer and make sure the customer is happy in mind.

Lets look at the models AS have released, Scimitar, a classic UK aircraft? real aircraft was bugged to death and wasnt successfull, so why does AS produce it, was it because its never been produced for the flightsim market? to fill a hole? something for people to think, yes a Scimitar, id love to buy one of those for my flightsim? to produce sales only and not one care for peoples needs and requirements? the list go's on and on...

Question is, did/do we need a Scimitar in the flightsim communitity? will it be successfull? will it break even/make loss or profit?....one thing i would of thought was, wouldnt it be a great idea to ask our forum members at least, have regular polls and find out if we produce a Scimitar will it sell and make us money, no profit, no business side of AS. If no, then look at other aircraft and see if others will be a success more than the Scimitar (used in this example). If you know the UK market is never on the 'good' side of AS sales, then why dont you make changes to improve that rather then just saying the UK market just idnt 'good' for AS over others, carry on and do nothing, if the UK market is stale and has been for a while, change your approach rather than throwing it in the bin, wouldnt that be better?

Poll or questionaire our members to find out what aircraft they require, then play on that to see if AS staff can place it on the production line, then surely they know it will sell and make profit. Why was the Scimitar along with many other AS aircraft produced before others on the UK market, wouldnt it come down do, lets find out what our current and potential customers require, least then you would know being in business if its worth producing.

Just my couple of pennies worth, more than i will spend with AS again, so they've lost me a a customer, being removed from their forum in thier childish manner they have done with me, i will not spend one more single penny with them and i will no longer repaint anymore AS aircraft for the freeware community to enjoy, so we all have lost out on my contributions on both scales, pay and free.